In 1989, I went to work for the most powerful evangelical of his time, Dr. James Dobson. As a young and energetic Christian, I was elated to find myself in the epicenter of a vibrant evangelicalism. Even so, I struggled with the culture from the beginning. Yes, there was a great deal of positive energy. However, as Focus on the Family grew out and away from Dr. Dobson’s initial emphasis on parenting — as expressed in his ground-breaking book, Dare to Discipline — into political activism, I watched a transformation that was personally challenging.
My first encounter with Dr. Dobson was in the living room of a solid group of Protestants who were seeking to deepen their faith and faithfulness with their families. We watched and talked about Dr. Dobson’s teachings on fatherhood, and his perspective really resonated with me. As someone who came from a broken home, I wanted to halt the cycle of divorce and brokenness in my family. Dr. Dobson had the antidote. He was right, and through his promptings and my engagement with Christ and his people in a local Church, I was changed for the better.
In our society, the fight against abortion and pornography was at its boiling point. These were righteous battles worthy of civil disobedience, imprisonment and derision. Dr. Dobson rose to national prominence, in part because of his participation in the Reagan administration’s attempt to mitigate the scourge of child-pornography.
Unfortunately, I watched a fundamental shift emerge — what seemed to be an increasing emphasis on political power as a primary means to save a morally faltering culture. Dr. Dobson’s public emphasis on engaging in the exercise of political power in order to change our culture for the good marked Focus on the Family as a political organization (though 95% of the budget was spent elsewhere). While Dr. Dobson truly believed (and still believes, I presume) that the preeminent issue facing every living person was/is our relationship with God, the shrill and shallow nature of the media-centric culture wars completely obscured this firmly held belief. He became known for his harsh criticism of pop culture and political candidates rather than his love for Christ and his desire to form the Christian family as the only lasting and trustworthy foundation of a civil society.
Our culture has continued to erode away from Christ and his Kingdom. Evangelicalism has lost its way — and lost its children to secularism and have faded into a defeated and apathetic cynicism common to idealistic warriors who find themselves winning a few important battles but losing the war.
True culture change cannot come through the political process as a primary means. It was a politicized Christian conservatism that obscured the essence of the Evangelical movement (Christ and evangelism), and left in its wake a kind of moral political movement that diffused its own real capability of bringing about lasting societal change. The irony of this evolution is that while this was happening with U.S. Evangelical conservatives, it was also playing out on the left in the Catholic Church with a Christianized Marxism known as Liberation Theology. Both movements essentially displaced a transformative relationship with Christ at the center of real change and replaced it with political or structural power — a formula that never works.
There was and is a fundamental and culturally fatal misunderstanding of how and why cultures change.
Culture in a democratic society is merely an aggregate reflection of the beliefs of the people in that culture. Change the beliefs of those who make up that culture, and the aggregate reflection of those beliefs will change. However, the power to bring about any real substantive change for the better only comes through a transformative engagement with Christ. As this kind of real transformation occurs, the predominant legal and political environments follow.
Why does the appeal of power lure the hearts of those who rise to the ability to influence civil society? Because winning elections is an incredibly exhilarating process. It feels powerful and effective. However, convincing people to vote any particular way for any brief period of time is an emotional game, not one that reflects any real fundamental change. This is why, even in the wake of the fervent Evangelical "Church Growth Movement," the U.S. in recent decades has not experienced any fundamental or substantive shift toward Christian values on a national scale.
So how do we get to a place of fundamental change that then reflects itself in the culture? There is only one way that this can happen: through an authentic and transformational encounter with Christ, accompanied by a mental and emotional shift toward values and beliefs that mirror those of our Creator.
There must be a personal and aggressive engagement with the God of the Universe in and through his Church, the sacraments, catechesis, prayer and self-giving.
Does this mean that the political process should be abandoned? Absolutely not! Archbishop Chaput’s book, Render Unto Caesar - Serving the Nation by Living our Catholic Beliefs in Public Life, is as good as this story gets and should be read and followed by every serious Catholic who desires to stabilize the sanity of this nation long enough to rebuild the spiritual health of the Church.
The key is putting first things first. Political action — absent the foundational values that reflect the most important relationship of every living person — will only yield fleeting results based on the charismatic nature of leaders, the effectiveness of their arguments and their use of the media. Yes, changed hearts vote, speak and act according to divine wisdom — but deep and lasting convictions that reflect divine wisdom rarely, if ever, come through TV commercials, speeches or political campaigns.
In today’s intense battle for religious liberty, it is essential that Christians fight for the justice that is being denied all people of faith — and to do that, the political process must be leveraged with vigor and abandon. But this must be done through the lens of our faith, with the lead of our God.
To stay informed on the news and all that our Church is doing to uphold our most cherished freedom, I urge you to follow the comprehensive coverage at ReligiousLiberties.org. Determine what you can be doing to stand in unity with fellow Americans who are working and praying for fundamental change — and a return to a country that is truly “one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
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What went wrong with the religious right in America? Being Protestant, it is fundamentally flawed in some of its core propositions. The closer to the starting point the error, the greater the deviation from the goal over time. This is not hard.
All we have to do to preserve our religious liberty is exercise it: 1) keep the commandments; 3) get to confession when we don’t; 3) get to Mass; 4) preach the gospel, especially the gospel in its moral dimensions.
This is essentially the pattern that gave the Israelites victory over the Canaanites. They had to pick up a sword from time to time, as we may have to pick up a pen to write a congressman or an editor, but the crux of the story is that God fought for them. They were faithful to God, He was faithful to them. Essentially, the battle is the Lord’s.
The one who is most working for peace in society and the world is the priest hearing confessions - this is because he is taking evil out of the system on the personal level, as individual sinfulness is the source of all societal evil.
Read a Catholic Bible (starting with the New Testament if you have not read one before), and read your “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Give these as gifts to all relatives and others you care about - even non-Catholics for their reference library so that they can easily find out the truth of what the Church teaches.
Parents you will be held responsible for not teaching your children properly. Your and their Souls for eternity are at stake.
“….the Catechism has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine, enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (pg xiv)
“ The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved ... and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. “ – Pope John Paul II. (pg 5)
SAVE SOULS for Eternity. This is more important than anything else you can do.
Why are we trying to influence the world’s culture when the life of the body of Christ is so fractious and exhibits so little of the kingdom of God? Sometimes the proverb “Heal Thyself” makes sense.
If we give up or slow down our efforts to influence the culture through politics and other means, we will find ourselves with far less room (or no room at all) to do the most important work in individual souls. To me, carving out this room to work is the most compelling argument for civic engagement.
What went wrong with the religious right?
many things including:
- a selective concern for justice (ie only considering abortion).
- American Exceptionalism (more easily accommodated by Nationalist-State-Protestantism than Internationalist/Universal Catholicism).
ie not being fully Christian.
Catholic Social Teaching derives from loving ones neighbor as oneself, from which the following strands are derived:
- Life and Dignity of the Human Person – consistently pro-life eg anti-abortion, ant-death penalty, anti-unjust wars.
- Call to Family, Community, and Participation
- Rights and Responsibilities
- Option for the Poor and Vulnerable
- Dignity of Work and the Rights of Workers
- We are one human family whatever our national, racial, ethnic, economic, and ideological differences.
- Care for God’s Creation
The present day US religious right (eg Tea Party) would find much of Catholic Social teaching too leftist:
http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catholic-social-teaching/ (US Bishops)
http://www.catholicsocialteaching.org.uk/ (English Bishops)
Catholic social teaching is “right wing” as regards abortion and marriage, but is “left wing” as regards poverty, welfare taxation, universal health care, climate, foreign policy.
Pope Benedict, in his essay Europe and its discontents wrote:
In many respects, democratic socialism was and is close to Catholic social doctrine and has in any case made a remarkable contribution to the formation of a social consciousness.
http://www.firstthings.com/article/2008/04/europe-and-its-discontents—-50
We are all called to conform our values (including political values) to the gospel rather than twist the gospel to our political values - an ongoing conversion which is challenging and possibly painful.
1. Somehow Christians forgot that moral authority comes from helping the poor - Catholics have a whole social teaching. Solidarity and Subsidiarity. The free market, but with property rights and ostracism and denouncement when it turns into greed and envy. Even things like the sexual revolution need to be approached in charity, not by vitriol against the LGBT community.
2. 9/11. 4500 innocent babies based on averages died on 9/10/2001 in the abortion holocaust. The next day just over 3000 adults, some military (the Pentagon) and some helping (we bombed ball-bearing factories and Hiroshima and Nagasaki and firebombed Dresden and Tokyo) in the World Trade Center. So now Muslims were the enemy, and series like 24 with the hero Jack Bauer killing and torturing all over the place became popular. The Abortion holocaust paused for a while, but as the churches emptied, it resumed, so we have the TSA viewing us on porn scanners or sexually assaulting us, muslim US citizens are assassinated, we have torture (the Toca and Strappado from the Spanish Inquisition are Waterboarding and “Stress Positions” today). All to the cheers of the Religious Right.
The Right became the same kind of cafeteria Christians as the left. The Left would say “I’m only following my conscience”, but failed to form it properly. The Right says it is all the “unitary Executive’s” “prudential judgment” - which invokes the two cardinal virtues of prudence and justice, but no matter how imprudent or how unjust the whim of Bush or now Obama is, the opposition is dismissed with “Ah ah ah - can’t second guess our wise ruler in his office”.
I’m persuaded that if the contraception mandate came from the DHS and Janet Napolitano instead of HHS and Sibelius, there would be little opposition and only a few bishops might speak out and the Christian Right would be complaining that we need it to save us from the terrorists just like the TSA airport rapes.
Even now, I can only think of Bonhoeffer. When they came for them, I didn’t object because I wasn’t one of them. When they came for me, I only objected that they came for me, not any of the others they had already come for… The right to life itself - the Abortion Holocaust will take 50,000 innocent lives during the Fortnight against paying for contraception. Habeas Corpus. Self defense and keeping and bearing arms. Indefinite detention without trial. National Security letters. Assassination by executive order. Torture. Freedom to travel without being molested (literally). Infiltrating religious houses of worship (they did so in new york to mosques - would you like undercover police or informants who aren’t catholic going up and taking communion?). Killing rescuers when they assassinate some alleged militant. Killing mass numbers at funerals for militants because they think some of the mourners might be insurgents or “militants” (do we really want to call ourselves the “church militant” when it translates into the “church terrorist”?). The latter two are war crimes.
After shredding the Magna Charta - whom Steven Langton - a Bishop! - wrote to guarantee our liberties, and our constitution in the name of fighting terrorism (at least when it was “them”), we now want one or two shreds respected.
If you wish liberty, you need to fight for it in all its terrible glory and responsibility. Maybe a terrorist will get through and eventually be avenged, but we won’t rape men, women, and children in airports. Maybe we won’t find plots early, but we will be secure in our papers and possessions. Maybe we won’t jail one or two of hundreds who might do something bad, but we will preserve judicial review and Habeas Corpus.
Maybe it will take a bit longer to get the evildoers, but we will return to the shining city on the hill. The country of freedom. The country that respects the law, its own, international law, and natural law. The rule of law. The country that always seeks justice, never vengeance. We won’t torture but because it kills our soul. We won’t kill rescuers or mourners because we become worse than the terrorists. We will bring people to trial because it is the only way to establish that we are doing justice and not just revenge out of hatred and anger. That we are not merely bigger bullies with better guns holding a different holy book while we do monstrous things.
I can dream. But instead I expect the “religious right” to try to push leviathan government back across the Maginot line of contraception and if they succeed, go back to sleep while other, different atrocities against US citizens and ordinary human beings multiply - but at least without them paying for it.
For accurate quotes from Pope Benedict in entirety read the “Ratzinger Report”, which he approved rather than individual’s inaccuracies and personal interpretations.
There is no right or left when it comes to Faith and Morals, only Catholics, Catholic heretics or Catholic Schismatics.
Due to the lack of catechesis, when was the last time you have heard each of these from the pulpit:
1) the 10 COMMANDMENTS (not suggestions) - Thou shall not kill; Thou shall not steal; Thou shall not covet thy Neighbors’ goods, etc?
2) CCC: ” 2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights. Commutative justice obliges STRICTLY; it requires safeguarding property rights, PAYING DEBTS, and fulfilling obligations freely contracted. Without commutative justice, NO OTHER FORM OF JUSTICE IS POSSIBLE.
One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community, and from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in PROPORTION to their contributions and needs.
3) Subsidiarity - CCC # 1883, 1885, 1894, 2209.
4) Holy Scripture - St. Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians - 1 Thess 4:12 - be dependent on nobody; 2 Thess 3:10 - if anyone will not work, let him not eat.
Yes Jesus commanded each of us to help the poor, he did not command the Government. The poor are those who through no fault of their own are unable to help themselves, not freeloaders. Our government would not be $15 Trillion in debt - making us beholding to athiest China if we followed the teachings of Jesus.
When have you heard that Governments have a responsibility to pay their debts from the pulpit - COMMUTATIVE JUSTICE. Why not, as part of the Church’s total teaching? ? ?
No individual Bishop nor any Bishops’ Conference is the Magisterium of the Church. If you want to accurately quote Church teaching, use the Magisterium’s “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”. It is devoid of personal opinions of human beings, or human committees, and false misinterpretations.
Read the “Ratzinger Report” for more about problems with Bishops’ Conferences, Vatican II, current day heresies, a shattered catechesis, liberation theology, etc - quotes by Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) and approved by him.
Please read an article before commenting. Or stop thinking about what you’re going to say while you’re reading if you are reading at all. Common courtesy.
@ANNE:great posts- thanks
The religious right is a bunch of sociopaths who use the Bible and the Flag as excuses to take everything away from Christians who are dumb enough to believe what they say.
Maybe tangential to the main point; Did St Francis of Assisi tell his followers: “Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.”
G.K. Chesterton is supposed to have answered a query put by an editorial writer : “What is wrong with the World?” by the response: “Dear Sir; I am!” Chesterton’s response acknowledges that many who profess Christianity often do not live up to that ideal by their conduct. I am also guilty in this.
TeaPot562
For those of you who have shyed away from the term religious right in the past in the voting booth, we’ll for the most part it’s gone these days. And what do you now have left? Idiots from the left who have no brain or morals who are stealing our liberties. Bring back the religious right. If you are the type of person who didn’t vote in the past, but are disturbed by what has happened over the last 4 - 6 years because of people who don’t believe in American values, please get out and help vote these morons out of office in November.
The hate and cynicism that flows from both sides of the aisle these days often leaves me feeling politically homeless. This article is a good summary of why that happens to me and, I think, others: because it is
“an aggregate reflection of the beliefs of the people in that culture.”
I notice that several combox commenters use this article to try to continue to win a political debate. And some didn’t even read it and use this forum to espouse their cynicism and hate. Aren’t both responses missing the point of the article? Isn’t our task to lead by example rather than arguing about the role of government or who’s right and who’s wrong?
“If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.” ~St. Paul
no richard, please read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”. All Catholics are required to adhere to its teachings. The role of government is included.
The teachings of the Church are well balanced, but unfortunately many times we only hear “part” of the teachings from the pulpit if at all.
It is unfortunate that many US Bishops do not actively encourage the reading of the CCC by their Priests and Lay people in their own Diocese.
The CCC insures that we will know the truth.
We must pray, educate ourselves, and VOTE.
Richard - I appreciate your comments. Even though it can be discouraging, we need to stay in the fight. We express our love for others by doing so directly and individually. We also express our love and stewardship when we engage in political challenges that will ensure the freedom we need to live out that love.
I am a Christian, but I’m not Ned Flanders.
Take heart Richard, as long as there is life there is hope.
I am very far to the right, ultra conservative. Since coming back to the Church I have had to constantly ask God to help give me a new heart and new eyes.
I speak only for myself when I say I still do not understand many liberal and left-leaning ideologies, and I still see many of their policies as counter-Christian. But I am beginning to see that its fruitless for me to be obstinate in the face of opposition.
I pray to make Ezekiel 36:26 my life creed, “I shall give you a new heart, and put a new spirit in you; I shall remove the heart of stone from your bodies and give you a heart of flesh instead.”
As the world around me changes and becomes increasingly secular I reflect more and more upon the early Church and that world in which the saints lived in the midst of sin and hostile unbelief. And I ask myself, what did they do to win people over?
Richard - What did they do to win people over? This is not difficult to answer. The book of Acts tells the story in reasonable detail:
- They preached the Gospel without compromise
- They gave their lives as a testimony to the reality of their faith
- They met the material needs of their own and those around them
Dan, by your own admission, 95% of the Focus budget was spent on what they do best. Since you worked for Focus, you know from their daily radio broadcasts they are good Christian people, well intentioned and highly trained, educated professionals in their field of work. This is not some offbrand of the Westboro Baptist Church. Dobson is not a Pastor (which he had to remind the media countless times). He worked at UCLA Med Center as a Director and lead Psychologist specializing in handling problems of the youth and began to provide Christian principles as a solution to problems in the culture. His Christianity led him to spend more time wanting to help hurting families and individuals. It’s how the Focus organization came into existence almost 30 years ago in SoCal. Is this not what the gospel calls some us to do,—help hurting people? Others are called to various other ministries in which we serve Christ. IRS 503c prohibits Focus from endorsing political candidates, but as a Christian we all know what our positions should be based upon the Bible. The Relgious Right has not gone away nor have they gone astray. Rick Santorum proved that by winning both Evangelicals and Catholics. Perhaps your blog topic should be retitled: What went wrong with Catholics (and the clergy) that they would so enthusiastically support Obama?”
Anne and James - great comments.
Catholics need to be transformed by having a daily prayer life, becoming people of the Book(Bible),saying the Rosary and practicing Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Uless the Lord builds it, we labour in vain.
New Observer
“What went wrong with Catholics (and the clergy) that they would so enthusiastically support Obama?”
Great post. Excellent question!
Perhaps Focus needs a copy of Dom Chautard’s “Soul of the Apostolate”. It’s timeless. All action has to stem from a wellspring of contemplation. Let the well run dry, the works burn up. That goes for political work as well as religious/social work.
Stevenr.f. - Now that is the most rational value added comment yet. Absolutely dead on target. “Soul of the Apostolate” is a must read.
Personally, I can say that I have been caught up on both sides of the aisle (first the political action and then, within the church, the “right"which is in many ways another political forum). It saddens me but does not cause me despair to see all the emotionality that takes us all, as individuals, off course and into the human search for the power to makes things “right. I think Peter Kreeft provides us with a compass when he says we are on the wrong course as soon as our hierarchy becomes disordered, which means we have to keep God first and his will. This entails listening to each other but always taking it to God in prayer. I am much slower to act when I recall past errors and their fall out, pray,confess, and continue to study scripture, the Catechism, and other classical works interspersed current . And I still fall. My point? Dan’s article provides every reader with the challenge to examine who we are working for first, God or self. The comments seem to be more political statements that try to convince/correct others. I’m not sure. Is something that could bring us together still ending in division?
For UNITY all Faithful Catholics must believe the same things in matters of Faith and Morals.
There is no excuse for ignorance in the USA since the Magisterium has provided us with the tools we need - A Catholic Bible and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”. Give them as gifts, and encourage everyone to read them. Make sure that the CCC is prominently advertised in Diocese and Parish publications and web sites.
In the USA Bishops must publically handle the mortal sin of SCANDAL (without regard for public opinion and government money) in a very timely manner, so that the entire World will know what Catholics must believe and must do.
“Through the harmonious and complementary efforts of all the ranks of the People of God, may this Catechism be known and shared by everyone, so that the unity in faith whose supreme model and origin is found in the Unity of the Trinity may be strengthened and extended to the ends of the earth.” - Pope John Paul II (pg xv)
“THY WILL BE DONE”. - Jesus
@ANNE [“In the USA Bishops must publically handle the mortal sin of SCANDAL (without regard for public opinion and government money) in a very timely manner, so that the entire world will know what Catholics must believe and must do.”] Anne, if only that were true. Very likely Monsignor Lynn is now contemplating this same thought in his Philadelphia jail cell awaiting how much time he will spend in prison.
New Observer
I still did not see anybody answer our excellent question!!
I can only speculate the USCCB fully supported Obama in 2008 because his Marxist views promoting higher taxes, increased entitlements and an emergent socialism dovetail nicely with the Catholic “social” gospel the Bishops promote in each diocese. They care little what pedestrian Catholics in the pew actually think. It’s only now, in 2012, when it’s their ox which is being gored over the HHS mandate of providing abortion services that Cardinal Dolan and few other Bishops have finally got a bee in their bonnet.
What went wrong with the Religious Right? The Liberal Establishment Media, the Marxist Democrat Party, and a silent Catholic Church Pulpit.
mark koscak, I did not see your “excellent question!!” or any prior post by you.
What is your “excellent question!!”.
Vance -
Amend and amend.
LOL - I mean - amen and amen
What really went wrong was that after the Second Vatican Council 75 percent of Catholics stopped believing in the Real Presence and are now in serious danger of losing salvation.
Bob Rowland’s comment that 75% of Catholics stopped believing in the Real Presence after Vatican II is written in almost every blog I read, as the Number One excuse for everything that ails our church.
Maybe New Observer’s question asking why so many Catholics in the pews supported Obama/Biden in 2008, and how it relates to our bishops overall failure to lead us, is also answered by Bob Rowland’s keen observation.
Not only do 75% of pew Catholics not believe in the Real Presence, I think 75% of our bishops do not believe in the Real Presence either.
I’ll go further, I think the majority of our church leadership does not believe in God at all, if they did, they’d behave differently. They’d LEAD or they’d give up their posts to another man that could lead.
Too many bishops are weak males, and not even real MEN. Most couldn’t lead a household, let alone a whole diocese. We are seeing the results of their disbelief. We all suffer. To US congress, our bishops are “just another group of lobbyists”. That lack of respect didn’t happen overnight. It took years for the erosion to get that bad.
People in the pews need to wake up. We all need to get on the same page with “The Religious Right”, James Dobson & his son included, plus all other “God-fearers”, as did Jews in the Old Testament as well as in the New Testament. Even Catholics that like Vatican II, and still OBEY GOD, and those that like the Pre-Vatican II liturgies, need to get together.
No more casting fingers of blame at others, or making excuses. For those of us that believe in God, let’s get behind those few bishops that also believe in Him, and who want to see legislation in our country going back to the Chrisitan values of our Founding Fathers. They need our backing.
There is an organization (Hillsdale College?) that asked Americans to read the Declaration of Independence yesterday, out loud, and to promise to do so. I promised - and I read it with friends and family.
Folks: we need to be educated about what’s important in our government (and James Dobson knows what’s important, and he’s been working for years to draw attention to it) AND we need to be educated about what’s important about matters that have Eternal Value.
Regarding matters of Eternal Value:
First, is to believe in God, and to understand that He is real, alive, and He reaches out to those that seek Him. The Real Presence in Holy Communion, while important, is not an end unto itself.
About a Plan of Action, right now:
Every time Israel fell away from God in the Old Testament, someone found a copy of the Hebrew Scriptures, and taught it (in its fullness) to the community, and that turned the people back to God, who responded to them with love. A nation was healed.
That could happen in America: Nov. 2012. US leaders that honor God. Unlike now, where the Koran is called a “holy book”, while the Bible is disregarded as passe, and the National Day of Prayer is shunned. God is real. Jesus is alive. The Holy Spirit is living in us and among us, in other Christians, James Dobson and his son, included.
There is an organization (Hillsdale College?) that asked Americans to read the Declaration of Independence yesterday, out loud, and to promise to do so
Good idea. However, you might get a different result than you were expecting if you do the following:
1. Read the specific charges against England and ask if there is any merit to them. Having trouble? Try Hutchinson’s Strictures on the declaration (google it).
2. Read the catechism section on the criteria for morally acceptable armed resistance.
3. Open yourself to the possibility that maybe, just maybe, the typical narrative of the rebellion as good triumphing over evil, may in all truth be completely the opposite.
The religious right charted a course for hypocrisy, plain and simple. It tied its social and moral causes to immoral economic policies, as conversely the left tied its moral economic policies to immoral social policies, leaving American voters without any decent political parties to support. I think the “religious right” and the “radical left” need to go back to the drawing board and come up with consistently moral agendas.
Tony please give examples rather than just making statements of your personal opinion.
In addition, please quote the Bible and the CCC specifically for your documentation of Church teaching regarding your statements.
The unifying agenda is in the CCC. Thou shall not kill - abortion and euthanasia, and we must help those who are unable to help themselves - Holy Scripture.
It is quite simple, so I don’t understand your statement about immorality and hypocracy at all.
@Tony, since when do conservative Christians and Catholics create immoral economic policies? America has a long history of both Christian and Catholic charity for neighbors and those incapable of caring for oneself. How many trillions of dollars have been wasted by leftist politicians and their appointed leftist bureaucrats employed since Johnson’ Great Society to end poverty? They haven’t made a dent. All they’ve accomplished is to increase taxes so people have less to contribute to charities, our churches and missions which spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. Taking money from someone who does work and giving it to someone can work—but won’t, violates biblical principles. Those of us who have applied ourselves, sacrificed in life and deferred spending money we did not have should not have out pockets emptied by leftist Bishops and women religious who support Obama socialism.
But Dan, if we elect a Republican president he’ll nominate Supreme Court justices whose decisions will make America righteous again. Put not your faith in princes? Pshaw!
Regarding Catholics requirement to VOTE -
on the internet please read: “WORTHINESS to RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION, General Principles” by Cardinal Ratzinger written in 2004.
Let us remember that there is nothing proportionate in the USA to the killing of approx 1 MILLION innocent babies each year.
At every level of government, evil politicians beget evil, and they appoint evil persons of like mind for their Administrations and as Judges.
There has never been a more evil President than Obama, and some Senators of like mind.
What went wrong with the religious right is that it was all about using the power of God to serve the purposes of man. It was doomed from the start.
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It turned Christianity into an “Us vs. them” battle, and that is not what Jesus came to do. Do you think God REALLY cares about the next election?
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Christians do not fear Obama because Christ is strong. Republicans fear Obama because the Republican Party is weak. There is nothing wrong with being Catholic and Republican, but I think a lot of Catholic Republicans have their priorities out-of-order.
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I am working with a secular feminist women’s health educator (very liberal) to promote fertility awareness, which is the science behind NFP. It will help promote women’s health and it will help Catholics live their faith. That is called finding common ground and working together consistent with the faith, and what we are all called to do.
If you are REALLY worried about the politics, do remember that we have five practicing Catholics on the Supreme Court. One branch of government is controlled by people who go to mass and receive the Eucharist nearly every Sunday. Why do you worry so much?
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Justice Antonin Scalia led Clarence Thomas back to the Church shortly after he joined the Court. That matters far more than whether he can convince Kennedy or Roberts to form a majority for some legal issue that doesn’t really matter.
God does care who we vote for. It shows who we are and what we care about. It gives us another opportunity to keep His Commandments or disobey Him.
We may not receive Holy Communion if we vote for a pro-abortion politician, unless both candidates are pro-abortion and then we must vote for the lessor of the evils.
Regarding the Catholics on the bench, someone with $ needs to send one of them the CCC.
Some of the above responses prove that the Bishops need to have their Diocese Priests and Lay People read the CCC in entirety. According to the CCC, ignorance is not always free of guilt.
If you are a Catholic you are required to Vote - CCC 2240.
JD: I concur with much of what you say but my efforts to work in that common ground have left me wondering about the “fruit” of such works. Can work that denies or hides Christ be lasting and wholesome? or is it just another personal decision (theirs and mine)? I now wear my crucifix, bless the sneeze, make the sign of the cross with my silent grace before meals in their presence—and most importantly, before I begin I ask Him where He would have me go? what He would have me do? and how He would have me do it? My problem now is hearing One who is so soft spoken and so respectful of my free will.
PS The difficulty I have in discerning His will for me makes me much more reluctant to think I can discern His will for others.
Sorry, JD -you are so very ignorant. [“What went wrong with the religious right is that it was all about using the power of God to serve the purposes of man.’] What purposes of man? The Moral Majority was initiated because people of faith decided to take a stand against the radical leftist policies of bureaucrats, judges and politicians foisting ungodly practices down our throat. You do realize into the 1950’s the Bible was included as a textbook and was taught in public schools. Then came the end of prayer in schools, removal of the Ten Commandments from Courthouses, abortion on demand, banning prayer on the ball field or graduation ceremonies, Christian groups not being able to gather in schools or on public property, banning of nativity scenes at Christmas time, Happy Holidays and Winter Carols, removal of crosses on public lands, the name of Jesus now being denied and to be mentioned by US Military Chaplains, denial of Boy Scouts to use public facilities because they do not accept homosexual leaders, the gay lifestyle being taught to grade school children and openly naked men parading in San Francisco’s Pride parade without being arrested. How about these examples for starters? I will provide you more if you like. Since when is standing for righteousness serving the purposes of man? The culture has changed before our very eyes. My own parish priests laughed and ridiculed Jerry Falwell while not one of our elitist Bishops ever came to his support. Proverbs 14: 34 says: “Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.” People like you talk of finding common ground. Common ground with whom? Those who would destroy the culture? Except for abortion, the Bishops have remained cloistered and impotent living in a fantasy world of eclesiastical wonderment. Instead of engaging the culture as did Jeremiah the prophet, our Bishops have been more interested in spiffing up the liturgy. Rather than standing with Pastors like Falwell and other respected Christian Pastors, our Bishops sat in the peanut gallery laughing while allowing others to take the abuse. No doubt spending the last two years tweaking the Mass has yielded a profound, meaningful and spiritual impact on Catholics. They only succeeded in draining parish funds to increase the revenue for Catholic publishing houses who print new lectionaries, Mass cards and hymnals.
New Observer: Everything you talked about is a political issue, not a spiritual one. That is what I mean. Trying to change politics without changing hearts is a losing battle. Change people’s hearts and the politics and culture will take care of itself.
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Put another way, do you think God REALLY cares if a Ten Commandments monument is outside a courthouse? Do you think keeping it there brings anybody closer to God? It’s NOT. THAT. IMPORTANT.
“We may not receive Holy Communion if we vote for a pro-abortion politician, unless both candidates are pro-abortion and then we must vote for the lessor of the evils.”
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Really? Can you tell me which Bishop specifically said this? Which diocese?
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Just send me a link. A statement like this would have surely made the news. As a good Catholic laywoman, I know you know better than to just make up doctrine on your own. That’s for Protestants.
New Observer: You are right that these issues are a problem, but what you are advocating is merely treating the symptoms instead of curing the real cause.
JD, for the answer to your question, on the internet please read:
“WORTHINESS to RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION, General Principles” by Cardinal Ratzinger when he was the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, one year prior to his becoming Pope.
It has to do with our VOTING for politicians who support abortion - and our abilty to receive Holy Communion, plus more.
Remember that there is NOTHING proportionate in the USA today to the murder of approx 1 MILLION innocent babies each year.
http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm
JD: If you feel removing all vestiges of our Christian heritage in America is fine you are entitled to your opinion. I don’t share your view and many others do not as well. Our Christian heritage is quite important and may this heritage always serve as a reminder to the people. [“Changing people’s hearts and the politics and culture will take care of itself.”] How is that possible without a standard of righteousness? JD, your advocacy is rooted in secularism. We are tired of having to kow tow to humanists shoving their views down our collective throats.
JD
It is a sin for a Catholic to join the Democrat Party according to the teaching of the Catholic Church. I verified that with a very respected Cardinal in the Church when I had an e-mail discussion with him about a specific teaching in Life In Christ - Instructions in the Catholic Faith (published in 1958). It concerned a discussion point on the “5th Commandment - Thou shalt not kill.” (As an aside, the Jewish religion uses the word “murder.”).
The “discussion point” was #8. “Are religious and racial prejudice against the fifth commandment?” The answer was “Yes,” period. Then it explained why. The final two sentences in the explanation were, “To deny him his rights is a sin against justice as well as charity. This is particularly true in the case of JOINING AN ORGANIZATION which PROMOTES segregation OR ANY OTHER DENIAL OF HUMAN RIGHTS. (my emphasis)
This was the Catholic teaching pre-Roe v Wade, and is still the teaching today according to this high level person who wrote: “The question you raise is one of cooperation in evil - and one commits sin depending upon how close is one’s cooperation with the sinful action (e.g., performing an abortion).
JD, “joining an organization which promotes…any denial of human rights” is “particularly true” to be a sin, period. The Democrat Party is an “organization” that is mainly, if not solely, responsible for abortion remaining legal; it is a main plank in their party platform. They get the power to do deny the unborn their “human right” to “life” by the mere numbers of people voting for them. But the Catholic teaching is not about voting for them, it is about “joining an ‘organization’ that denies” one “their human rights.” So Catholics who are registered in the Democrat Party are in a state of perpetual sin.
Now, how serious a sin is it? This Cardinal says that depends “upon how close is one’s cooperation with the sinful action (e.g., performing an abortion.).” The Democrat Party gets their power to deny the unborn their right to life by the large numbers of members who have freely “joined” that organization with their registration, and also support it with their votes, money and time. Members of that organization do not have to be the ones performing or participating in the actual physical destruction of that life, others will do that; but continued large membership in that organization IS THE prerequisite in assuring that those children’s lives will continue to be taken from them.
If large numbers of members of that organization were to remove their names from that organization’s registration rolls and stopped supporting that organization with their votes, that organization would have to change their position on abortion or they would lose their elected power and could no longer succeed in “denying” the unborn “their right to life.”. Therefore, Catholics, the single, largest support group in the Democrat Party, have a high degree of “cooperation with the sinful action.”
The Church published an updated Life In Christ on Catholic teaching in 1995 which contains basically the same language concerning the 5th Commandment as the 1958 book, and the same discussion with one addition – examples: “This is particularly true in the case of joining an organization (such as the Nazi Party or the Ku Klux Klan) which promotes racial, ethnic or religious hatred.” “Rights” were mentioned in the preceding sentence: “To deny any person her or his rights is a sin against justice as well as charity.”
So, denying one their “rights” is a sin, and it is “particularly” a sin “in the case of “joining an organization.” The Democrat Party is an organization that is responsible for the deaths of more innocent human beings than the Nazi Party of Germany, the KKK of the southern United States, and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, combined. And it is all made possible by those Catholics who remain in the Democrat Party and vote for their candidates. The culpability of those Catholics in those deaths is high, high enough to be a mortal sin - a perpetual state of sin - as long as they remain in that organization and vote for their candidates.
Kirk Cameron came out with a documentary called, “Monumental” which is very good, and it’s all about our nation’s history. A man in Texas has the largest collection of early published US books, and among them is the first Bible that was published and distributed by nothing other than the US Congress of the day. It even has their signatures on it. Seems our early founders believed that to have a good and moral society, we need to obey the Moral Law Giver: our Creator, God.
@New Observer, Anne, stilbelieve: I don’t think that attitude will win many people over to Christ and the Church. It seems like you want to fight a losing battle.
Might I suggest the words of St. Francis: “Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.”
JD, use your “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” from the Magisterium to educate yourself. There is no excuse for ignorance.
You can not lump posters together assuming that they all agree on everything. If you have any issue with my post - please elaborate. You are using a Democratic trick so you won’t have to debate the issues with me.
Neither your nor my personal opinions mean anything when it comes to the murder of innocent children.
Be very specific about your personal problems with specific posts.
Catholics are required to VOTE, Satan will use you and anyone else he can to discourge educating ourselves and voting.
You are defying the Magisterium who provided the CCC.
JD
“I think Peter Kreeft provides us with a compass when he says we are on the wrong course as soon as our hierarchy becomes disordered, which means we have to keep God first and his will.”
Is it God’s will that he creates life for it to be aborted?
@JD
“New Observer: Everything you talked about is a political issue, not a spiritual one.”
We didn’t pick these fights, the Democrats did. The issues they picked are spiritual issues to us; and political issues to them. Do tell me we can’t talk about those issues because they are “political.”
@JD
Mary said, “We may not receive Holy Communion if we vote for a pro-abortion politician….”
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JD replied, “Really? Can you tell me which Bishop specifically said this? Which diocese?
Just send me a link”
@JD
“New Observer, Anne, stilbelieve: I don’t think that attitude will win many people over to Christ and the Church. It seems like you want to fight a losing battle.”
JD, I’m giving you Catholic teaching that supports Mary’s statement about not receiving Communion if you vote for a pro-abortion candidate. I’m not trying to “win…people to Christ,” I’m trying to educate you, a Catholic, (you are Catholic, aren’t you?) on something you don’t seem to think is true. I took it a step further to educate you on Church teaching on the 5th Commandment that you commit a sin by merely joining an organization that denies a person their human rights, in this case the most important right of all - the right to life. I gave you the names of the books containing the Catholic teachings, teachings that you seem not to believe based on your comment to Mary. The teaching on the 5th Commandment plainly states it is a sin to deny a person of “any human rights,” and “it is particularly so if you join organization that promotes that.” A major organization, the Democrat Party, is primarily, if not solely, responsible for the continued denial of the right to life to unborn children who Catholics profess to believe are created by God. And Catholics are a major voting block for that organization, giving it the electoral power to continue enforcing their party platform in support of abortion. If Catholic Democrats would stop sinning by removing their membership in the Democrat Party, and stopped voting for the pro-abortion party, then the Democrat Party would lose their electoral power which has enabled them to continue to deny unborn children their right to life. And if you think Catholic Democrats have not been in the state of mortal sin all these years, than what sin do you assign for being responsible for the murder of 52,000,000 innocent human beings created by God?
There are many reasons that the country has not turned around morally. It’s not so simple as the Evangelicals got too political. First of all, I think it is libelous to say the Evangelicals who became involved in politics were in it for the power or were corrupted along the way to want power. I also worked with the movers and shakers of the religious right in the 1980’s and 1990’s and I see things totally differently. While there may be a person or two that became power hungry I actually know didn’t know any and I knew scores of Evangelicals in politics. I knew dedicated, self-less, incredibly amazing Christians who were trying to change the culture. Everyone has a different vocation on how to do this. Different organizations do it in different ways. Take the pro-life movement for instance. I worked at one point or another in every facet of the movement. I did direct action, I did grassroots lobbying for legislation, I did Capitol Hill lobbying, I worked for candidates, I did pure education, etc. Some people however, are better at the politics, some at education, etc. We are individuals and we do what we are best at. Same with organizations. Some do education, some do political work, etc. It’s all valuable and it all has to be done. As a matter of fact, thanks to the religious right, countless babies have been saved through the election of pro-life presidents and the passage of pro-life laws. But unfortunately the tide of evil in the country continues to gain strength and we continue to lose ground. This is not because we religious conservatives, Protestant or Catholic, are too political. (By the way, there were and are just as many conservative Catholics working with the conservative Evangelicals on all these political issues). In fact, if anything I think we have lost ground because the average practicing Catholic does not get involved enough in politics. It’s all well and fine to believe in the teachings in the Church but if you don’t try to promote that in the public square you allow the liberals and secularists to have their way. Even in my own family there are some who are good Christians but don’t see the need to get involved in politics in order to promote Christian values. Faith is a “private” thing to them. That is a dangerous idea. Get involved people and get everyone of faith involved in the political process. That doesn’t mean you want “power” it means you want to change the culture.
Stilbelieve, Thanks for your above comments and references to JD since you have saved me much time in formulating a similar response. JD continues to ignore that virtually all Catholic Democrats voted for such legislation and vote against outlawing partial birth abortion legislation every time a bill is introduced. Furthermore, JD also fails to reconcile that the majority of Catholics continue to vote against their own faith based interests by re-electing Catholic Democrats time and again who are only interested in staying in office.
I think JD is a Democrat first, and a Catholic second - if at all. Politics first, God second. Do whatever is necessary to get your politician elected.
He is trying to discourage Catholics from the important requirement to Vote. If they do vote, he does not want them to care about the murder of approx 1 Million innocent babies in the US each year, and Obama’s strong support for this murder not only in the USA, but at the UN and tying it to foreign aid.
PRAYING, EDUCATING OURSELVES, and VOTING can change our Society. Those who tell us otherwise, do not trust in God. We must not vote for EVIL politicans.
Again, I answered JD and he refused to acknowledge - CARDINAL RATZINGER (now POPE BENEDICT) - “WORTHINESS TO RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION, General Principles” on the internet.
Because we have to say things so many times and even give him documentation without his acknowledgment of it, proves he is merely an operative with an agenda that is not Catholic or is heretical and schismatic.
ANNE, very likely you are correct. If Catholics voted based on Bible-centered positions, all the Pelosi’s, Cumo’s, Leahy’s, Durbin’s, Biden’s, Dodd’s, Daschle’s and every Kennedy would never have been elected to office. It’s moral insanity for Catholics to vote for these and other Catholic politicians who support anti Catholic and anti New and Old Testament precepts.
It’s too bad that TA’s post was lost in the conversation. I would like to return to the initial article that started this conversation, noting that virtually all of the topics being discussed/debated are symptoms. Yes, we can and even should get involved in improving and changing these symptoms (Been There’s post is a very eloquent argument for why we, as Catholics, need to get involved.) For me, the question is how to define and change the underlying issue that causes these symptoms. I have realized in my own life that the hour I spend in front of the Blessed Sacrament does much more to solve the root of the problems than yelling and screaming at a bunch of people who already have their minds made up. The more daily masses I can get to, the more I am working on the true root issues. The more of my friends I can get to go to mass with me, the better I am doing at changing the culture from the inside, not just patching the symptoms. These actions do not let me out of my obligation to teach and spread the Truth where appropriate and, most importantly, with love. In fact, they enhance my ability to discern when to intervene, how to intervene, and how to do so in the most effective ways. Picking a topic and debating with someone who is unlikely to change his or her mind is ultimately like putting a band-aid on gaping wound. And that is why I hav a hard time identifying with the Religious Right. I agree with them on most topics political and spiritual. However the absence of loving speech and the presence of resentment are so evident. And isn’t that the point of the initial article - that there is something not entirely effective about the Religious Right?
richard, there is no religious right or religious left. When it comes to the Catholic Faith, there are Catholic Faithful, Catholic Heretics, Catholic Schismatics, and Catholic Ignorant (CCC #1792, 1801, 1791).
In addition to spending time with the Blessed Sacrament and praying - here is the Plan -
1. Education. Encourage as many as possible to read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”, so they will know the truth of what they are required to adhere to without human error or without prejudiced personal opinion.
2. Gifts. For birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Weddings, and other occasions give a Catholic Bible and/or a CCC. (There is no greater gift than that which will help Save a Soul. These can even be given to non-Catholics for their reference libraries.)
3. Contact: your Parish and Diocese Office and request that they put a link to the CCC at a prominent place/home page on the Diocese/Parish web site, parish bulletin, etc.
Both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict want all literate persons to read the CCC.
One can not evangelize without the facts.
@richard
“I agree with them on most topics political and spiritual. However the absence of loving speech and the presence of resentment are so evident.”
I’ve have been following the religious right since the term “religious right” was coined. I can not agree with your characterizing it as having “absence of loving speech and the presence of resentment.” I do not that your characterization is “so evident.” Can you provide examples of what you are talking about so I can understand better what you are talking about?
@Been There
“There are many reasons that the country has not turned around morally.”
“But unfortunately the tide of evil in the country continues to gain strength and we continue to lose ground.”
Would you expand on your two comments above? What do you see as the “reasons that the country has not turned around morally?” Why do you think “we continue to lose ground” to the “tide of evil?”
@Richard: [“The more daily masses I can get to, the more I am working on the true root issues. The more of my friends I can get to go to mass with me, the better I am doing at changing the culture from the inside, not just patching the symptoms.’] Excuse me? How is going to daily mass getting at your “true root issues?” And how is your going to mass even remotely relevant to a non-believer and to those who are openly defiant in their rejection of the gospel? Even Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden go to mass. What good is that?
“What went wrong with the religious right?”
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## Jesus did not resort to political power - He saw its appeal as a temptation. To have dome so, would have made His preaching meaningless - He preached the Good News of the Kingdom of God, which is a Kingdom of Righteousness (including the promotion of justice in society) and Peace. “The kingdoms of “the world” were offered to Him by Satan - at a price: acknowledgement of Satan’s Lordship. But how could Jesus, who came to destroy the tyranny of the devil, acknowledge his lordship ? This devil’s bargain is what Jesus rejected by rejecting “worldly” power - but by cosying up to the State, and exprecting it to do the work that only Christ Crucified can do by the His Spirit, Christians accept this bargain: they try to do God’s Work, on the devil’s terms: a hopeless contradiction.
What went wrong with the religious right? Actually, nothing at all. The author begins the blog from a totally false premise. Those of us who identify as such continue to vote our convictions. People of faith have not succeeded in turning the tide legislatively and in the courts is due to (a) too many lying politicians who championed our causes while running for office and/or (b) once elected, they caved to the Washington establishment only concerned with staying office. Many Republicans should be held in ill repute for their weak spines as much as most all Democrats (Catholic politicians in particular) who suffer from congenital brain disorder. Perspective is critical. People of faith can sleep at night knowing they have voted based upon principles found in Scripture. At the end of life, the Lord will say: “Well done, good and faithful servant.” It’s apparent that thought hasn’t crystalized yet for people like Pelosi, Biden and all the others falsely claiming they are Catholic or Christian in Washington, DC. Their view is that people who vote based upon the Bible are religious nuts. Obama has already said as much when running in 2008 linking the religious right with gun ownership. And this from a man who also claims he is a Christian. In his view, secular people with guns are more sane. Hopefully we can send him back to Chicago so his buddy Rahm Emanuel can hire Obama back to “community organize” the shootouts at the OK Corral going on there now.
New Observer says to Richard, “Excuse me? How is going to daily mass getting at your ‘true root issues?’”
I’m not going to question the point Richard was making about going to daily Mass, but I would like to share some insight on that, and spiritual understanding that may be gained from such devotion. Twenty-seven years after Row v Wade, I checked the voter registrations of all the priest in the Diocese of Orange, CA, one of the most conservative counties in the country. I did that after a priest, saying Mass, told everyone during the Homily how important it is to register to vote and vote. It was an election year.
There were 260 priests in the Diocese’s Catholic Directory. Of that, 42% were not registered to vote. 24% were registered Democrats (D). 20% were Republicans (R). 10% were Declined to State (Dec). A total of 9 priests were registered in five categories other than D, R, Dec. Of those who were registered to vote 41% picked D, 35% - R, 10% - Dec, 6% - other.
All those priest not only attend daily Mass, they say it, and 42% of them who were registered to vote - picked the pro-abortion party to register in. I think that may have had something to do with the effectiveness of the “religious right.” They got stalemated by the Catholic Church who introduced, some 10 years after Roe v. Wade, so-called “social justice” issues into the anti-abortion - prolife movement which was the sole issue that started the “religious right” in the first place. “Social justice” issues had nothing to do with the murder of unborn human beings. It was an invention and intervention of the Catholic bishops, lead by Cardinal Bernardin of the Archdiocese of Chicago, one of the most corrupt Democrat cities in the country, for which, now, the bishops are paying a price which may cost us our First Amendment Rights of Freedom of Religion.
@stilbelieve: In the Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24, the apostles came to Jesus and asked three questions. (1) When will these things be?, (2) What will be the sign of Your coming?, and (3) What will be the sign of the end of the age? Jesus responded by saying: “Take heed that no one deceives you.” Jesus further explains that false christs, false prophets and false teachers will arise to deceive (if possible) even the elect in authority. To this end, St. Paul writes in 2 Thess. 2:3 “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day (the Day of Deception) will not come until the falling away comes first and the man of sin is revealed.” Stilbelieve, in these modern times so many have indeed fallen away from the faith both in the Protestant and Catholic tradition. Not simply the laity but clergy as well. Paul further states in Romans 1 that at some point people become so hardened the Lord gives them over to their own obstinance or stubborness rendering themselves incapable of making any moral judgment. If we follow Christ, there is only one source for understanding truth, one source for creating that grid through which everything in life filters and becomes clear: rightly interpreting the Word of God and living by that standard. Noted Christian author S.L. Johnson once said that many Christians are like a man who resets his watch every time he sees a clock with different time. Thus, he will never know what time it really is. Responsible citizenship in the Kingdom requires all churched Protestants and Catholics to not simply listen to what (and who) is speaking and teaching, but to pray for discernment of the Holy Spirit. One may think Protestantism is more highly susceptible to error, (and indeed they are) however Catholicism, while monolithic in authority also has potential as well. Every Protestant Minister and Catholic Priest will have a style or political bent which (if they are not careful) will veer them off the truth of the gospel either deliberately or unintentionally. They are men like all men. We are all subject to satanic attack. And clergy—even more so because of their power to influence the people of God. Like the man who keeps resetting his watch, Protestants and Catholics need to be on guard their church does not fall prey and reset itself to every new trend or popular slant on the gospel. When this happens it’s likely such a church is not fixed on the truth.
I’m very interested in this notion that attending sacramaents has no bearing on the root causes of the changing values in our society. That seems to be the antithesis of Catholic Tradition, which holds the sacraments, especially the Eucharist, as the primary means of relationship with Christ. I guess I can only speak for myself when I say that as my spiritual worship increased my heart softened and I start to discern right speech and right action better than I used to. I would also point out that many people make it an either-or proposition: you are either on one side of the aisle or another. I recently ran across this quote, which I find sums my experience up perfectly:
“For years, I and others have said we sometimes feel ‘politically homeless,’ alienated from polarized politics and false choices that ask us to choose between defense of the unborn and protection of the poor, between Catholic moral principles and the church’s social teaching, between promotion of economic justice and protection of religious liberty. When we are ‘politically homeless,’ it is not enough to proclaim our purity or complain about others; we need to find a home, or at least build a shelter. We need places and strategies to advance a consistent vision of defending human life and dignity, to bridge differences through civil dialogue and pursuit of the common good, and to form and encourage more lay leaders to act as ‘faithful citizens’ in American public life.” - John Carr
Granted, this quote is in an article from “that other NCR,” which is quite clearly not in line with Catholic teaching (though I’m starting to wonder how many Catholics are reading this given teh rapid dismissal of the role of Sacraments in the healing of your country.) But John Allen is a good writer and I do like to read him on occasion.
Finally, just to help stilbelieve out, here are some great quotes that in my humble opinion are not in nay way reflective of the love of Jesus Christ for sinners (meaning, all people):
“As soon as Jesus sits on his throne he’s gonna rule the world with a rod of iron. That means he’s gonna make the ACLU do what he wants them to. That means you’re not gonna have to ask if you can pray in public school. We will live by the law of God and no other law.”
—Cornerstone Church’s Rev. John Hagee, who endorsed John McCain during the 2008 presidential race.
“[Homosexuals] want to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers.” – Pat Robertson
In love…
richard, your post is exactly why all literate Catholics should read the CCC to know the truth of what the Church teaches.
By the way, J. Allen works for a heretical newspaper that calls itself Catholic and does not acknowledge the CCC in its entirety. (That newspaper is commonly nicknamed “fishwrap” since it is only good to wrap stinky fish in. For example they support Polosi, Biden, Obama, etc. The Bishop in their Diocese should not allow them to use the name Catholic in their title. This is a scandal.)
Catholics can not be responsible for the religious beliefs and statements of the Protestants that you have quoted.
ANNE, I agree with you fully about the Catechism; I wish more people would read it for its richness and guidance. However, if you think either party has done a good job of advocating subsidiarity and commutative justice then we fully disagree. Please keep in mind that in my prior posts I haven’t suggested that either party is better. To the contrary, I feel little connection with either party. It is most definitely the lesser of two evils. And while Catholics cannot be held responsible for quotes of the Protestants I mention, the title of the present article is “the religious right,” not “the Catholic right.” Most Catholics I know who are happy to call themselves Republican have wedded themselves to the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons of the world for political ends. I’m not comfortable being in the same camp as that crowd. I do admire your mission to get people reading the CCC, though. It is, indeed, an amazingly rich document.
@richard, attending the sacraments ARE of value to those who believe and follow Christ. They are of NO value to the left, radicals and those whom have rejected Christ. One’s personal devotion to the sacraments has nothing to do with the spiritual blindness of the ungodly. It was true in the time of Jeremiah, in the time of Jesus—and now 2,000 years later. Believers attending the sacraments do not compensate for those who are no longer capable of making moral judgment. Paul says in Romans 1 the Lord has already given them over to a seared conscience. Read it.
@richard [“Most Catholics I know who are happy to call themselves Republican have wedded themselves to the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons of the world for political ends.” Your comment sounds like an Obama sound byte coming from David Axelrod, Robert Gibbs, David Plouffe or Debbie Wasserman Schultz. For the record, Richard,—please explain what *exactly* are the political ends of Catholic Republicans?
@Anne: I’m not the one who is talking about politics, you are.
My last post was a quote St. Francis of Assisi. I didn’t realize he was a Democrat.
BTW, I actually support Romney. I usually vote a split ticket. (Red on top, blue on the bottom. I live in a conservative state.) Why did you assume I am a Democrat?
I remember being very torn as a public school educated teenager. I’m a cradle Catholic but grew up in the Bible Belt where my faithwalk was always attacked by my protestant friends as lacking in solid Christian foundation. I was active in the Christian Student Union at school but gosh, it was difficult. And though there is a lot we can learn from our protestant brothers as far as personal connections, biblical knowledge, adapting certain Gospel aspects in light of present world, there are some distinct & significant differences too.
Sadly, I think many of the evangelicals became too wrapped up in their continuing protest against the Catholic faith. They actually believed their own interpretations about Catholicism without focussing on the common grounds. And worse, they became hellbent on converting Catholic believers and remain largely ill informed, naive and ignorant about Catholic church teachings. Essentially, they prefer their Sunday soundbite and solo scriptura stance rather than the historical and traditional heritage that the Catholic church has continued to maintain as Christ’s legacy.
Yes, we as Catholics are blessed with our sacraments and how I love them but my protestant friends do not understand them and do not want to understand them. Even today, however, at my age (30 plus years since my teen years), it’s interesting to note that many of my Catholic high school friends still remain devout Catholics, and sadly many of my protestant high school friends have either left the faith all together or gone on a sojourn between Baptist, Non-Denominationalism, etc. I still get preached at by protestant friends who still attempt to convert me but my resting place is confident in God’s embrace as a Catholic. To Jesus Christ, I really don’t think he really cares about the labels - what God the father truly wants is for us to be faithful to his message of the Gospel.
What is truly sad is that what once was one Catholic faith, has splintered into over 10,000+ Christian denominations. To me, that is just speaks volumes about how much our Body of Christ is hurting (and we definitely cannot present a united stance in facing our biggest threats to our religious freedom, much less evangelize amongst our Islamic brothers & sisters
@Theresa [“without focusing on the common grounds.”] Theresa, you could apply your statement equally between Catholics AND Protestants who too often fail to support each other in matters of common interest. [“much less evangelize amongst our Islamic brothers & sisters.”] Evangelization can only occur when people are open to hearing the gospel. Attempting to evangelize devotees of Islam is what Jesus referred to as “Casting your pearls before swine.”
@Theresa: I grew up in the Bible Belt and I too have a mixed opinions about being surrounded by so many evangelicals. On one hand, it’s nice to be around so many Christians, on the other hand, there are significant differences. Or as Flannery O’Connor (from Georgia) put it:
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“The Catholic . . . in the South will see many distorted images of Christ, but he will certainly feel that a distorted image of Christ is better than no image at all. I think he will feel a good deal more kinship with backwoods prophets and shouting fundamentalists than he will with those politer elements for whom the supernatural is an embarrassment and for whom religion has become a department of sociology or culture or personality development.”
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My Southern Baptist roommate taught me about Jesus (I slept through CCD.), but a Bible study where the blind were leading the blind through John 6 showed me the deficiencies of evangelical Christianity.
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But what really bothers me is when they do join the Church, but keep their evangelical worldview when they join. They are always welcome in the Church, but they can unwittingly cause a lot of trouble. They know their Bible better than most Catholics, and they sure know how to evangelize, but they don’t know the faith. And they don’t know that they don’t know the faith. A lot of Catholics, even cradle Catholics are getting confused.
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Catholics believe there is no conflict between properly understood faith and sound reasoning. St. Thomas Aquinas. Many evangelicals hold on to the Luther’s idea that disbelief is the only sin and, therefore, are suspicious of reason that might question what they think is “the faith” (and may indeed be erroneous faith).
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“Evangelical worldview” Catholics often seize the first bit of error they come to, believe it is the faith, embrace it without questioning, then spread it to the world. This scares off many Catholics who have some grasp of the faith, recognize the error, believe their error is the Church, and then reject what they think is the Church. I know they mean well, but it can be frustrating at times.
@JD
“My last post was a quote St. Francis of Assisi. I didn’t realize he was a Democrat.”
Here’s what an article said about this saying in Christianity Today; “I’ve heard the quote once too often. It’s time to set the record straight—about the quote, and about the gospel.
“Francis of Assisi is said to have said, ‘Preach the gospel at all times; when necessary, use words.’
“This saying is carted out whenever someone wants to suggest that Christians talk about the gospel too much, and live the gospel too little. Fair enough—that can be a problem. Much of the rhetorical power of the quotation comes from the assumption that Francis not only said it but lived it.
“The problem is that he did not say it. Nor did he live it. And those two contra-facts tell us something about the spirit of our age. “
This article was written by an author who wrote a book about St. Francis of Assisi.
JD, a while back you were doubtful about Anne’s comment that Catholics who vote for pro-abortion candidates should refrain from going to Communion. You asked for proof of a bishop saying that. I provided you Catholic teaching on the 5th Commandment in “Life in Christ - Instructions in the Catholic Faith” that said denying someone their human rights is a sin, and it is particularly a sin when joining an organization that promotes that. I asked a Cardinal if the teaching in that book was still the teaching of the Church; he confirmed it is still the teaching of the Church. I provided reasoning to you that that sin is serious - mortal - for a Catholic to join the Democrat Party. I asked you if joining an organization responsible for the murder of 52,000,000 unborn human beings (that we believe were created by God) was not a mortal sin, then what sin do you believe it is. Have you given any thought to that; and do you have an answer?
Here’s another example to think about those WHOM we listen to and what they preach. In general most Protestants consider their Pastor a man of God and even more so—Catholics staunchly defend their parish priests. Consider Fr. Michael Pfleger, Pastor of St. Sabina’s Parish in Chicago. He openly embraces Obama’s socialism and violent abortion policies as a brother in arms even to the point of having the Rev (?) Al Sharpton deliver a sermon at Pfleger’s Sunday Mass. Sharpton’s liberal views on abortion are well known as are the Rev (?) Jesse Jackson’s with whom Pfleger has been arrested with. Fr. Pfleger’s list of other offenses are well documented including physical threats made to NRA members and his embrace of what virtually every Catholic would call apostacy not only to Catholics at large but to Protestants as well. It appears Cardinal George has yet to rein Pfleger in which indicates Fr. Pfleger’s positions are good and acceptable “truth” to pew Catholics in Chicago. His guest appearances at Jeremiah Wright’s church (that of Obama) and even the United Church of Christ is something Catholics should find as offensive and false teaching as much as Bible believing Protestants find equally offensive about Pastor Rick Warren and his purpose-driven church in SoCal. Truth is discerned through the Word of God and not because someone has authority to speak from a pulpit. A false teacher can wear a collar equally well in both the Catholic and Protestant church.
“Your comment sounds like an Obama sound byte coming from David Axelrod, Robert Gibbs, David Plouffe or Debbie Wasserman Schultz. For the record, Richard,—please explain what *exactly* are the political ends of Catholic Republicans?” - New Observer
If that’s how you want to perceive my statements there is not much I can do about it. Do I have to provide some evidence of who I have voted for in the past? Have I not made it quite clear that I don’t identify with either party? Yes, I choose the lesser of two evils, neither of whom are anywhere remotely close to supporting Catholic teaching in its entirety. I can see that your world is very black and white. “He doesn’t support Republicans?!? He MUST be a card-carrying Democrat.” Just because I don’t support Rs doesn’t mean I vote for Ds, and unfortunately am forced to vote for Rs in most situations. And most Catholics I know have great political ends, which is why I don’t understand why many of them fully and wholeheartedly support Rs. Being pro-life and being able to control the Supreme Court is the one, single significant persuasive argument to vote for an R for Catholics. Other than that, I don’t see much overlap between “Catholic” and “Republican.” Even less between “Catholic” and “Democrat.”
I will point out one last time (I’m wary of writing anymore, so you may have the last word) that this publication’s editor, one of the most conservative Catholic publications out there mind you, is the one who wrote about the broken “Religious Right.” I agree very much with the article above - the resolution will come through Spiritual means, not political means, and too many people mix the two up. Doesn’t mean we sit on our hands; it means the energy we use to create change must be grounded in Spiritual PRACTICES and the love of Our Father.
@richard
“I agree very much with the article above - the resolution will come through Spiritual means, not political means, and too many people mix the two up. Doesn’t mean we sit on our hands; it means the energy we use to create change must be grounded in Spiritual PRACTICES and the love of Our Father.”
richard, the intrinsic evil of abortion has been made legal across all of the United States and kept legal by political means for 38+ years by the Democrat Party, the party I was “born and raised in” in south Chicago. It is a spiritual issue that will only be resolved by undoing the means by which it is kept legal, or Christ’s return. How do you propose to do that without using the system in place to undo it? Obviously “Spiritual PRACTICES and the love of Our Father” have been insufficient, by themselves, to accomplish this end. Is it because enough prayers haven’t been prayed? Is God “demanding” more? How can that be with his Church here on earth? Are the bishops and clergy failing in their duties; failing the flock spiritually or misleading them? I know what I know the problem is that has kept abortion legal. I’m curious to know if you know what the problem is, exactly. You say the solution will come through “spiritual means;” what exactly do you mean by that?
stilbelieve, perhaps you should enlighten me on what the problem is. You seem to have a better grasp on it than I do. All I can do is speak about my personal experience. You seem to know much more than I about the depth, breadth, nature of and solution to these problems. The floor is yours.
@richard, I have just as much contempt for Republicans as Democrats who fail to govern by biblical standards. Your drumbeat of lamenting the devoid of spiritual consciousness within the system cannot be solved purely by going to mass and saying the rosary. It was Jeremiah who prayed and Jesus prayed as well. However, they both engaged their culture in addition to prayer. Of further note is that Jesus did not waste time arguing with people nor did he plead with them. Jesus spoke the truth concerning the Scriptures, Himself,—and kept moving. The record is clear that those who are spiritually blind have already made their choice and the Lord has given them over to themselves. Jesus was not concerned with convincing the Pharisees or the Scribes for their hearts were already hardened as much as was Pharaoh’s response to Moses (“Who is the Lord that should obey him”?). If people take your position but fail to also work toward stopping and undoing all the damage—how is that being a responible disciple of Christ? For the last 50 years your position has been that of the Bishops. There is no moral authority if you fail to stand for righteousness. Is there no wonder why many Catholics now have come to realize how weak their leadership truly is? They sat on the sidelines allowing men like Falwell to take all the ridicule and abuse. Satan is most happy when God’s people are separated. Why did no Bishop ever stand with Falwell or endorse organizations like Promise Keepers? Catholics like Pelosi, Biden and Christians like Obama are already spiritually dead. Running into a church or going off to a monastery to pray the rosary will not alone prevent the next pillar to fall —that of legalized gay marriage nationally. Consider the most heinous evils Catholics and Protestants find abhorrent (abortion and homosexual marriage) are rooted in the Democratic party. Whenever we cast a ballot, Protestants and Catholics alike should always think. Any Pro-Choice (aka abortion rights) candidate or one who supports gay marriage will instantly tell you they are spiritually blind. Supporting such people is moral insanity and displeases God.
@richard
“...perhaps you should enlighten me on what the problem is.”
You said, “the resolution will come through Spiritual means, not political means, and too many people mix the two up. Doesn’t mean we sit on our hands; it means the energy we use to create change must be grounded in Spiritual PRACTICES and the love of Our Father.
I think the problem is the Catholics. If I’m correct, and you are correct, what does that say about the Church?
@stilbeliever: You’re centered on the heart of problem. Mr. Burke seems to think the Relgious Right (a media tag name) went off course with some political agenda and identifies James Dobson as one of the architects. I’ve not heard anyone else hold or arrive at the same conclusions as Mr. Burke. Conversely, FOCUS helped to establish the FRC (Family Research Council) in Washington, DC to promote family-based legislation in Congress and also to be watchdog on pending bills which too often have become inserted into larger legislation most everyone was never hearing about. When you are busy working and raising a family, who has time to keep tabs on ungodly inserts to larger bills passing the House and Senate?
Ralph Reed countered the media’s tag of “Religious Right” more aptly with “People of Faith.” The media, working with DNC strategists love to paint Christians as having a political agenda. I am disappointed that Mr. Burke has taken this position as well in the context of this article. There is nothing political about standing for bible-based principles. The problem for Catholics and Protestant is that by default, we are called to be kind, loving, generous and not wishing to offend people. To be “Christ-like” (if you will). The gospel shows, however, that Jesus Himself was not always kind, loving and unoffending in the face of sin or sinful people. At one point Jesus even told Peter “You are of your father—the Devil! It’s interesting to watch Cardinal Dolan now standing up regarding the HHS mandate requiring abortion services. We praise God for this. However, the Bishops have done nothing but sit on the sidelines since the 60’s leaving all those “crazy” Baptist and Evangelical preachers to be mocked and laughed at.
Regarding the non-conforming Fr. Pflegher, here is yet another parish that’s left of a Roman Catholic center. It’s news that Katie Holmes, freshly divorced from Tom Cruise for objecting to her 6 year old daughter being influenced by Scientology, is a revert to Roman Catholicism. BUT the parish she is in seems to embrace the homosexual lifestyle. Link to Catholic News is here:
http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=32179
If you can’t read it, the gist of the article is:
Holmes’ return to Catholicism is evident due to her registration as a parishioner at the Church of St Francis Xavier in New York City.
“Everyone is thrilled to have Katie join us,” a member of the church’s choir told the Huffington Post.
“She has not yet attended a service, but when she does she will be welcomed with open arms.”
The church is known for its open-mindedness, particularly its welcoming of gay and lesbian couples. The parish’s mission statement says that the church “strives to be a prophetic, welcoming community, inclusive witness to the presence of Christ Jesus in our midst.”
It’s great to WELCOME homosexual people to their church. But when they strive to go AGAINST clear teachings, such as Romans Chapter 1, then, bishops need to take note and implement church discipline, such as with the shinangigans of loose canons like Fr. Pflegher and his open support of Obama. I thought he could lose his archdiocese a tax write-off for that. Pastors can support ISSUES but not candidates.
James Dobson’s Focus on the Family had/has an Action division, that is political. But in his own capacity, Dobson did all he could to try to bring morality back to the USA. He was/is a MAN, and a leader, and he was on his OWN. While I applaud our bishops for finally stepping to the plate, most need to be together, in a big huddle, rarely speaking out on their own, and taking flack from disgruntled non-Christians, and liberal, Nancy Pelosi-type Catholics.
James Dobson deserves our thanks. He would never stand for the Fr. Pfleger’s South-side Chicago parish, or the St. Francis Xavier-type parishes, that are in contradiction to everything for which he stands. New York City - would that not be Cardinal Timothy Dolan’s purview? Or is it another diocese?
Terah - you are exactly right about Dr. Dobson in your comments. We do owe him thanks. Most importantly, there are a great many more babies who survived the womb because of his work. My attempt here is to merely put first things first. When we get our priorities out of order, we begin to attack the problems in ways that simply don’t last. External structures (law, government, etc) will never, on their own, create or even preserve a healthy culture. People who are transformed by a real relationship with Christ can and must build a healthy society first through that foundational relationship and secondarily through societal structures that reinforce the reality of that relationship. Now we are in a situation of serious necessity. We must increase our political engagement to hold off a hostile environment where the most important elements could become illegal. Then all bets are off and the battle for a healthy society is lost. So, first is faith and relationship with Christ and strong catechesis, then civic engagement based on the transformational reality of Christ among us - Christ within us. We live our faith - we fight for room - we live our faith - we change the culture.
Dan, the problem is that too many Catholics and Protestants both have not been living “out” their faith for so long that liberals have run rough shod over us. You are correct that we have now put ourselves in a battle to save our culture. It was no different for Jeremiah the prophet. It is highly spiritual because we know our children, our families and the next generation are at risk. Casting votes for candidates who possess no moral judgment is insanity. Catholics have historically and repeatedly done so and against their own best spiritual interests. And their Bishops and Priests have never called them to task for this. The ungodly will never accept that which is spiritual so we should harbor no illusions. Proverbs 14:34 says “Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.”
Ok, stilbelive, starting an unjust war (and by the way, the Vatican considers the Iraq War in the Middle East to be an unjust war) is also a human rights violation. The Republicans hands are far from clean either.
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Remember “Enhanced interrogation” techniques? Human rights violation.
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So if you are getting into politics, you are going to be supporting one party or another that supports human rights violations. So that’s probably WHY the Church doesn’t make political endorsements.
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And WHY did you assume that I am a Democrat? Did you miss where I said I supported ROMNEY?
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Just because I don’t believe that the Church demands us to join the Republican Party doesn’t mean that I am a Democrat. I vote the candidate, not the party.
Proverbs 14:34 says “Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.”
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What makes you think that Righteousness comes from the political process?
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You’ve got the cart before the horse. Righteousness makes for good politics, good politics do not create righteousness.
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This was the error of the religious right. If they would have put half as much effort into winning hearts as they put into winning elections, we wouldn’t have so many political problems.
My point entirely, Dan Burke. Thank you.
JD: Thank you for your righteousness. The spiritual objective is an attempt to elect godly, biblically principled leaders to government. If you think you live outside this civilization, Comic-Con starts next week in San Diego. Once elected, if by their record you perceive such people as frauds or liars you have a duty to vote them out—that is unless you somehow think Proverbs 14:34 is nonsense. You seem to have a hard time understanding the objective *is* spiritual. It’s the process which is political. Why don’t you think that spiritually-based people are involved in politics? Jesus was involved in politics so why not the rest of us? He didn’t spend all His time hiding out in prayer. Insanity is when you vote for Republicans or Democrats who consistently take a stand for unbiblical positions.
JD [“This was the error of the religious right. If they would have put half as much effort into winning hearts as they put into winning elections, we wouldn’t have so many political problems.”] JD, taking your position, then please explain what the Catholic church has done for “winning the hearts” of fellow Catholics: Pelosi, Biden, Leahy, Daschle, Dodd, Durbin, Cuomo and every Kennedy elected to office? Perhaps if these people had NOT been consistently winning elections, (your words would apply) —“we wouldn’t have so many political problems.”
I heard disturbing news today about the priest from Washington, DC. that discreetly refused to give Communion to a woman who identified herself and her partner to him as lesbian, before her mother’s funeral.
The bishop apologized for the priest’s actions, removing him from the parish, and today, that priest isn’t even IN the diocese anymore. I’d call this an error on the part of our bishops. We need LEADERSHIP, and MEN that know the Gospel, in its ‘fullness’.
Our church needs to know how to practice “church discipline”, according to the New Testament. When apologists demand that we are the church that was “founded by Jesus Himself”, we need to prove it, by showing it.
From what has been reported thus far, the priest is correct, and his bishop: WRONG. James Dobson would be able to figure that out, and he isn’t even in ordained ministry.
JD
“Remember ‘Enhanced interrogation’ techniques? Human rights violation.”
Don’t accept it is as a “human rights violation” nor did the Justice Department of the United States of America. This technique is given by our military to our own troops in basic training . Come on.
JD “So if you are getting into politics, you are going to be supporting one party or another that supports human rights violations.
I don’t believe that for a second when it comes to the party I’ve chose after I and discovered the lies of the party I grew up in. Let’s see. “Human rights violations” huh? – slavery (Democrat Party); KKK (Democrat Party); murder of unborn human beings (Democrat Party); abolishing First Amendment Right of Freedom of Religion (Democrat Party); Sacrament of Marriage for homosexuals (Democrat Party.) Nope, I don’t see any similarities between the two major political parties. Oh, yeah, one more – civility (Republican Party)
JD
“Ok, stilbelive, starting an unjust war (and by the way, the Vatican considers the Iraq War in the Middle East to be an unjust war) is also a human rights violation.”
Bottom line. “The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.” (CCC 2309))
All the facts of the case support the correct decision was made by President Bush and the 39 other nations that were involved on our side.
Pope John Paul II, a decent man, didn’t have the facts to make the decision he made about the Iraq War just like he didn’t have the facts straight when he said capital punishment is no longer necessary. “CCC2267: Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, IF THIS IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY OF EFFECTIVELY DEFENDING HUMAN LIVES AGAINST THE UNJUST AGGRESSOR.(my emphasis)
“IF (ditto), however, non-lethal means are SUFFICIENT TO DEFEND AND PROTECT PEOPLE’S SAFETY FROM THE AGGRESSOR(ditto), authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity with the dignity of the human person.
“TODAY, IN FACT, AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE POSSIBILITIES WHICH THE STATE HAS FOR EFFECTIVELY PREVENTING CRIME, BY RENDERING ONE WHO HAS COMMITTED AN OFFENSE INCAPABLE OF DOING HARM – WITHOUT DEFINITIVELY TAKING AWAY FROM HIM THE POSSIBILITY OF REDEEMING HIMSELF—THE CASES IN WHICH EXECUTION OF THE OFFENDER IS ABSOLUTE NECESSITY ‘ARE VERY RARE, IF NOT PRACTICALLY NON-EXISTENT (John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, 5) (my emphasis)
The good Pope presents no evidence to support his assertion nor has anyone else from the Vatican to the USCCB presented any evidence that society can be protected by life in prison sentences in high tech, solitary confinement prisons. THE FACTS ARE, THEY DON’T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THEIR “IN FACT” ASSERTIONS. THE FACTS ARE THAT WE CAN NOT, REPEAT, NOT BE PROTECTED BY LIFETIME SENTENCES IN HIGH TECH, SOLITARY CONFINEMENT PRISONS BASED ON A 3 YEAR, $5,000,000 FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL INVESTIGATION OF PELICAN BAY PRISON IN CA, THE NEWEST, MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON IN THE STATE IN WHICH 25-COUNT INDICTMENT OF A TOTAL OF 12 MEN AND 1 WOMAN WAS HANDED DOWN ON FEDERAL CHARGES OF MURDER, ROBBERY, CONSPIRACY AND DRUG-RELATED CRIMES ALL RUN BY INMATES HELD IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT CELLS WITH GLASS WALLS, GUARDED 24-7. THE CRIMES WERE ALL CONDUCTED OUTSIDE THE PRISON WALLS. PROFESSIONALS DEALING WITH PRISONS FROM FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL JURISDICTIONS SAY THE SAME THING – “THERE’S LITTLE IT CAN DO TO STOP THE KILLINGS ORDERED BY INMATES WHO HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE AND NOTHING BUT TIME (ON THEIR HANDS.) (O.C. REGISTER, SUNDAY, APRIL 29, 2001 HEADLINE – “MURDER FROM THE INSIDE OUT).
The Catholic Church in CA is supporting an initiative on this November’s election ballot to end capital punishment. It’s called the “SAFE Initiative” which the church helped gather signatures for and is very excited about. The bishops didn’t care about the article I sent to their meeting concerning this initiative carried to the meeting by the Diocese of Orange Director of Respect Life, Justice and Peace. They just dismissed it. Such a “spiritual” group. Such a caring Church for the safety of innocent people. I happen to know one of the CA bishops pushing this ballot measure. He’s a big time Democrat.
@JD
“This was the error of the religious right. If they would have put half as much effort into winning hearts as they put into winning elections, we wouldn’t have so many political problems.”
Yeah, they should have joined the Catholic bishops when the bishops adopted Chicago’s Cardinal Bernardin’s new definition of “pro-life” 29 years ago to include so-called “social justice” issues. Look how spiritual Catholics became since then, especially those in public office. The clergy and catholic laity became sooo spiritual that 54% of Catholic identified voters in 2008 voted for America’s first ever pro-abortion, pro-infanticide President; who is now rewarding them by attacking the Church’s First Amendment Rights. Yeah, that spiritual broadening of “pro-life” to a “consistent ethic of life” sure turned around a lot of hearts.
@JD
“And WHY did you assume that I am a Democrat? Did you miss where I said I supported ROMNEY?”
I don’t believe I did assume you were a Democrat. What I did inquire about is your response to my presentation of Church teaching on “joining the Democrat Party is a sin against the 5th Commandment.” I presented evidence as to why it is not only a sin, but a mortal sin. You did not believe Anne’s statement that Catholic Democrats should not present themselves for Communion, and wanted the name of a bishop and diocese that said that. I took it a step further and gave you the teaching from “Life in Christ,” both the 1958 and the 1995 revision. I asked if you didn’t think being culpable for the murder of 52,000,000 unborn human beings is not a mortal sin, then what degree sin do you thing it is. Would you care to answer that now?
Dan Burke: [“People who are transformed by a real relationship with Christ can and must build a healthy society first through that foundational relationship and secondarily through societal structures that reinforce the reality of that relationship.”] Dan, your words are spoken as a true (but now former) Evangelical no doubt highly influenced by your time at FOCUS. I’ve never heard any Catholic Priest or Bishop say this. Would you not agree that the church has been AWOL for decades allowing your next comment to be even more salient: [“We must increase our political engagement to hold off a hostile environment where the most important elements could become illegal.”] While other people of faith have been trying hard to avert the impending things you lament, Catholicism has spent their time on the inclusionary and ecclesiastical having nothing to do with the transformation of society. Dan, since you are a newcomer to Catholicism, I respect your right to your opinion but many Catholics disagree and are angry with weak leadership and feel the church has lost its way big time. Did it ever seems strange to Dobson, H.B. London, Mike Trout, or (former Catholic) Bill McCartney, et al why Catholic leadership was not ever an encourager or supporter of FOCUS? Their primary ministry remains today that of helping families and people carrying a wounded spirit. It took the recent passing of one of your frequent guests on FOCUS (Chuck Colson) before Catholic writers had anything good to say regarding his “transformed” life. It’s a fact that in the 90’s Catholic men were attending Promise Keeper rallies in droves. Nary a word was ever mentioned in Catholic churches concerning these stadium rallies held all over the country. Many Catholics find it more productive if the USCCB had invested their time more wisely on Reformed Theology instead of their invented and relentless pursuit of the social gospel. This is how we ended up with socialist community organizer elected President and with Catholics in tow.
@New Observer
“Many Catholics find it more productive if the USCCB had invested their time more wisely on Reformed Theology instead of their invented and relentless pursuit of the social gospel.”
So true!
I think “love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you” might be a better strategy.
JD: Your comment is typical of the Religious “Left.” Pious snobbery. For the last 50 years your side has sat on the sidelines while all vestiges of faith have been systematically removed from the culture and ridiculed everywhere in the media. Were you involved by asking your Priests and Bishops to follow as *you* suggest? Did your parish and other parishes in your diocese hold all night prayer vigils for *your* enemies and those attacking the church during these past decades? Did you join with other local Christian churches toward this end? Has your parish prayed for the conversion of Nancy Pelsoi and Patrick Leahy? People of your brand of Catholicism keep thinking something is wrong with using a political process to advance and promote godly principles and integrity in government. You have ignored that Jesus was Himself involved in politics. I’ve had plenty of experience with parishioners of your viewpoint. Not all Catholic families have the financial resources to send their children to Parochial school and Catholic high schools. Those which do are insulated away from what your fellow Catholic parents are seeing taught and celebrated to our young. The Lord still hold us responsible to protect our children and the next generation even if our parish Priests and Bishops refuse to stand against ungodly policies and ungodly Catholic politicians. As celibates, they have no stake and thus spend their time on more pressing USCCB issues such as whom to “canonize” next. Pious Catholic liberals like yourself are insulting to the rest of us. Were I to accept your view of the social gospel, then working for justice dovetails with removing Catholic politicians who promote evil in the culture. Abraham bargained with the Lord in Genesis 18:32 to not destroy Sodom and the Lord agreed “for the sake if there be found only 10 righteous.” Yes, your brand of Catholicism is very much alive in the pew. Old Testament passages rarely exist for homilies and are only dragged out for RCIA candidates to ponder once a year at Easter vigil. Pray we must. But only a fool prays in burning building.
JD - The problem with the religious “right “is that they let the religious “left” have too much influence for too long.
The problem with the religious right is that they can’t see where they are wrong. Any good executive pays attention to it’s critics—instead they invented Fox News to keep themselves from the real world.
@JD
“I think ‘love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you’ might be a better strategy.”
omebody should have told Cardinal Bernardin and the bishosp.
Dan Burke, here is what happened to the “Religious Right.”
pages 242-244 in “Cardinal Bernardin - Easing conflicts - and battling for the soul of American Catholicism,” a biography by Eugene Kennedy, a 30 year close friend of Joseph Bernardin. The title tells it all.
“...Cardinal Cooke died, a saint in the eyes of many because of his patient endurance of a wrenching illness, on October 6. Archbishop John Roach, president of the National Conference of Bishops, recognized that the church…would deliberate carefully before making appointments to such significant posts. He, however, was face with a more practical difficulty because the respected Cooke had been chairman of the bishops’ pro-life committee. Since the bishops’ ‘Respect Life’ program of activities was such a cornerstone of all their pastoral positions, including that of the just issued peace pastoral, Roach understood that he needed a man to replace Cooke who would be a credible leader, that is, someone who already enjoyed the confidence of his brother bishops and of the culture at large. He did not have the luxury of time because the bishops’ annual meeting was only a few weeks off.
“He called Cardinal Bernardin in Chicago. ‘Joe,’ he asked, ‘can you help us out?’ He went on to explain what Bernardin already understood: The success of the ‘Respect Life’ program depended on fresh dynamic leadership from a bishop whose authority to lead was already well established. ‘I’ll accept if you understand,’ Bernardin responded, ‘how I believe we must approach this question at this time.’ The Cardinal archbishop of Chicago summarized his theological and POLITICAL (my emphasis) reflection of the last several years. He would, as his record clearly demonstrated, be as strong an opponent of abortion as Cardinal Cooke had been but he would add some other elements that he considered essential for the success of the church’s crusade in behalf of the preservation and enhancement of life.
“For years, Bernardin had been troubled by what appeared to be the isolation of the anti-abortion question from other pro-life issues. Not all pro-life matters were of equal importance, and each required its own moral analysis. Bernardin understood: but all were rooted in the same basic Catholic position about the sacredness of life. There had to be some linkage between these issues in order to reveal a consistent theological position. Bernardin had wrestled with these concepts even before the years of studying and applying them in the preparation of the pastoral letter on peace.
“In addition, the pro-life activities of the bishops would founder if they could not be made more appealing to the vast array of priest and others who served in the front ranks of pastoral work. A more cohesive and consistent position that recognized a spectrum of pro-life issues, ranging from peace through capital punishment, would energize the priest, clergy, and laypeople in direct contact with the Catholic population in a positive way. Not only would this move gain greater support from Catholics and others BUT IT WOULD KEEP THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT FROM FALLING COMPLETELY UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE RIGHT WING CONSERVATIVES WHO WERE BECOMING ITS DOMINANT SPONSORS. THE LATTER, IN THE JUDGEMENT OF MANY, MAINTAINED A NARROW FOCUS THAT EXCLUDED LINKAGE WITH ANY OTHER ISSUES, THUS ALIENATING LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO, ALTHOUGH PRO-LIFE IN THEIR CONVICTIONS, WERE CONVINCED THAT THE PROBLEM HAD TO BE PLACED IN A RICHER CONTEXT OF MORAL CONCERNS. SUCH PEOPLE FELT, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT YOU COULD NOT BE AGAINST ABORTION WITHOUT BEING AGAINST ACTIVITIES, SOME OF THEM GOVERNMENT SPONSORED, THAT ENDANGERED INNOCENT CIVILIANS IN THE CAUSE OF DESTABILIZING CENTRAL AMERICAN GOVERNMENTS.
“Roach appreciated and agreed with Bernardin’s position. ‘I understand,’ he responded, ‘that we have to broaden our horizon.’ With that commitment of support, Bernardin accepted Roach’s invitation to replace Cardinal Cooke on what the bishops viewed as one of their most significant committees. Bernardin, who had some five years before expressed his first vision of the linkage of pro-life issues before the convention of the Knights of Columbus, immediately contacted Father J. Bryan Hehir to explain the direction in which he hoped to lead this movement. Hehir, the priest intellectual who had made such a substantial contribution to the development of the pastoral letter on peace and who was also working with the Archbishop Weakland on the forthcoming pastoral on the economy, immediately agreed to assist Bernardin in this new enterprise.”
There is the crux of what went wrong with the “Religious Right,” the Catholic Church went “Religious Left” in 1984 and took the founding issue of “pro-life” - abortion, with it. This enabled Catholic Democrats to say “they are pro-life, too, but their pro-life doesn’t end with birth.” Thus, Catholic Democrat consciences were assuaged with this insulting claim. Catholic laity, clergy, including the bishops felt comfortable to remain in the Democrat pro-abortion party. Cardinal Bernardin’s action didn’t save the babies, it save the pro-abortion Democrat Party who became very arrogant after that in President Reagan’s appointments to the U.S. Supreme Court. And the Democrat politicians, especially those who were Catholic and pro-abortion, were given “absolution” to remain as they were, defending and fighting for abortion on demand.
That is why this favorable biography of Bernardin is so aptly titled -“Cardinal Bernardin - EASING CONFLICTS - AND BATTLING FOR THE SOUL OF AMERICAN CATHOLICS.” He won; Religious Right lost. Catholics remain Democrats - babies remain being murdered by the millions.
@Gloria, Gee, the old punching bag again of FOX News? How about pulling your head out of the rarefied air in the ivory tower you live in and take an objective view of the highly partisan and slanted left of Sunday talking head shows of David Gregory (NBC), Bob Schieffer (CBS) and “Boy” George Stephanopoulos (ABC). Then you can objectively watch Ann Curry, Chuck Todd and Norah O’Donnell. Lest we forget the Clinton years apologist—the now deceased (and insipid)—Peter Jennings. Shall we also discuss CNN? (The Clinton News Network). FOX News was a response to provide balance and equal time. Not to be forgotten are the array of NPR and PBS commentators including Washington Post and PBS darling Catholic Democrat Mark Shields. Since Mr. Burke began this blog with reference to Dr. James Dobson and FOCUS, it has not been forgotten that Katie Couric used her high profile position as lead anchor on the TODAY show to lay blame for the Wyoming killing of Matthew Shepherd at the doorstep of Focus on the Family in Colorado headed by Dr. Dobson. Even Mr. Burke would likely call this an unfair hit piece by the left. And then there’s MSNBC fondly known as MSLSD.
The error made by most of the above commentators is to confuse the pulpit with the political arena. To be effective in politics and government, one must use language and tactics akin to its nature. To do otherwise is like playing the game of football using the rules of baseball…in other words, to lose. A person who merely quotes the bible or the cathechism has already lost the political argument, and the forces of atheisim, secularism, and anti Christianity advance their agenda. There is no doubt that Christianity in America and Western Europe are today facing its greates foe since pre-Constantine Rome…Christianity today is being legislated out of existence by national governments. If Christians do not enter the political arena with the same vigor and tactics of its opponents, the current freefall of Christianity will not only continue, but accelerate. Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
“If Christians do not enter the political arena with the same vigor and tactics of its opponents, the current freefall of Christianity will not only continue, but accelerate.
What do you mean by your above quote?
I mean that Christianity is being attacked and Christians are being murdered all over the world…many countries in the middle east, asia, and africa that once had small but vibrant Christian communities are dwindling in population or actually no longer exist. Many muslim and communist countries outlaw Christianity…and the traditional Christian countries of Western Europe and the United States have grown increasingly secular, and their federal governments have begun intentionally limiting or prohibiting Christian worship and practices through legislation. I use the word “freefall” to describe the decline of Christianity because of government restriction and prohibition of the Christian religion. I support Christians becoming actively engaged in the political process to fight the anti-Christian policies of the federal government, and I do not agree with the premises or conclusions of the author of the original NCR article. in fact, I only subscribe to the NCR because of its affiliation with EWTN, and my belief that EWTN is a more conservative (not liberal) Catholic organization.
The Tea Party is not religious.
And “religious right” is such a nebulous term it’s almost meaningless. I’ve heard plenty of reflexively-opposed-to-religion people (including people on college campuses, people who aren’t supposed to be ignorant but - alas - are!) include the Catholic Church as part of what they imagine to be the “religious right.”
Study hard, get out in the real world, meet some people who proudly self-identify as “religious right”, and attend some Tea Party events. Learn something Joe; then try again.
Also, “Catholic Social Teaching” isn’t Catholic socialism. Try again on that too. Maybe do a year of home visits with your local St. Vincent de Paul Society and you’ll stop romanticizing the poor.
@Micha Elyi [” “Catholic Social Teaching” isn’t Catholic socialism.”] You better have a conversation with Archbishop Gomez in the Diocese of Los Angeles on that.
Excellent and interesting post-topic. What went wrong with the Christian Right? It went wrong when just enough of its leaders began to see how much influence they had and decided to combine it with political allies who could possibly exercise some clout and put enough muscle into seeing some of their pet causes passed and signed into law. (One could put the same pattern into the “wrong steps” column for the Left as well.)
Christianity’s prophetic voice should not be defined by any large-scale alliance-building with any one particular party. Remember the old saying, “Place not your trust in princes?” Take a look at Church history and you’ll find out how often that good old saying has been ignored far more often than heeded.
One of the most disturbing trends arising out of the Colorado Springs crowd is the notion that the U.S. is a “Christian nation,” or founded to be a “Christian nation.” Nay! In fact, the United States, as we have come to recognize it through the formation of the national, not the previous jerry-rigged Confederation, Constitution, came about more from the common fear shared by the One Percent classes of merchantilists, bankers, lawyers, legislators ... usual suspects even for our times ... at the point of bayonets affixed to muskets owned by Daniel Shays’ Regulators. Although most of the “combat” was limited to western Massachusetts, the ripple effects of those yeomans trying to scrape subsistence-livings on very hard-scrabble farmlands are still being felt to this day.
And while Shays and his men no doubt were predominately Congregationalists or Baptists, they were more interested in finally getting one of the most powerfully oppressive cabals off the backs of so many farmers whose homes and farms were foreclosed, families broken up and tossed into horrific debtors prisons until their debts were repaid. (With what, God only knew since they were too poor to obtain specie which the local merchants who were pushed by the coastal elites of bankers, politicians and shipping merchants after the British started putting the screws of their imperial version of a global market economy of that era.
Fair to say, the elites had their knuckles rapped by counting houses in London. The Brits were often suspected of plotting the whole uprising from the get-go, but our One Percenters of their time didn’t flinch when they saw how they could make some handsome incomes and pick up easy properties in the process. Sharp Yankee merchants, indeed. But too sharp for their own good and they almost lost it all.
The Nation wasn’t put together to establish a Godly empire for the safekeeping of merchantile capitalists, and plantation slavers. It was hammered out in Philadelphia by members of the latter classes because they had the fear of God put into them by poor farmers up north, some of whom were Revolutionary War vets, when it came to losing their property. That the poorer yeoman farmers would lose their farms, well, tough luck; maybe the Almighty didn’t consider them as blessworthy. Oh, yes, that’s another nasty religio-mental hangover today’s Religious Right share with the more spiritually-grounded Founding Fathers; save for the Carroll Brotehrs who had more sense than to buy into the mis-taught Calvinism of their day. They proved you could be the wealthiest and not have to use a cat-o-nine to get results from their workhands ...who were all free. Must be something about that real old time religion: Catholicism.
History can be quite complicated, though you’d never guess it to be from what comes out of the Dobsons of Right Wing world and their patsies dominating the House of Representatives.
Want further evidence the US wasn’t created to be a “Christian Nation,” when Alexander Hamilton was asked by the Rev. Witherspoon of Princeton University why God wasn’t mentioned throughout the Constitution when it was drafted, his prized pupil Hamilton snipped, “We forgot.”
And sorry folks, the prayers offered by the leading lights, Franklin, and I believe also Washington, were not said in the spirit of God beaming down his light of illuminating wisdom, or lightening on those who refused to be so illumned by the Almighty. They were said at a time when Philly was suffering a hot and humid summer much like the one so many of us have endured (at least on the East) and they knew darn well having so many men sequestered and shuttered in a non ventilated space would have to endure; especially since they were often wearing wool frock coats, etc. Wigs were pretty warm to say the least, too. They wanted everybody to get out alive!
Spare us all, Oh Lord, from our historical revisionists, “constitutional originalists” and other gimmick-seekers whose ideas would best be confined to certain institutions which have long lost public favor ... and for good reasons, even if we need to repopulate them now and then ... especially with the “no compromises-on gun control crowd.”
@Steven Barrett, (are you finally finished?). Even this author (Mr. Burke) who worked for Focus directly will tell you James Dobson and the Board have never said the United States *IS* a Christian nation. We are, however, founded upon Bible-based Christian principles. The evidence is clear throughout. Why don’t you call 1-800-A-Family to find out from the horse’s mouth instead of your clap trap of “bearing false witness against thy neighbor.”
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