I have participated in Bible studies in one Episcopal parish, and three Lutheran parished (2 ELCA;1 LCMS). In every case, the clergy were quite willing to let me bring up divergent points of view from the Catholic religious tradition. This led to a good discussion on such topics as Rosary, the sacrificial nature of the Eucharist, and apostolic succession. There was no argung and I was always treated respectfully. It gave both “sides” a chance to expostulate their view without compormising each other’s conscience. No minds were changed, though one Lutheran pastor said my presentation on the Rosary and Marian devotion made it seem less “superstitious” than he originally though,though he still did not accept the practive.

Technically, this is a non denominational Scripture Class.  Which should mean that all are welcome.  Catholicism is not a denomination, so you’re good there.  I agree with Mark.  Go.  Speak up.  At the very least, you can privately speak with your daughter about anything that is suspect and explain why you disagree with what has been said.  This could turn out to be a tremendous way for you to teach your daughter (and maybe a neighbor or two?)

Here’s a different perspective… My daughter and I used to belong to a mother-daughter book club. All the other members were various types of Protestants and all of them home schooled. The mothers were really nice and the girls were fun. None us watched weird television shows or listened to degrading music. It was very wholesome. We enjoyed it for several years. At first we read normal kids’ books, with a few Christian books in the mix. I was able to give a Catholic perspective on these, and no one seemed offended. I got a better perspective on what they believed (as long as people read the Bible it’s all good) but I don’t know that they got a better perspective on us. I got the impression that they thought of us as kind of a harmless curiosity.

But as the girls got older the moms wanted them to read more overtly Christian books. A new family joined, and they would not read anything but “Christian fiction.” We ended up going from classic novels to Christian romances, in which the heroines were always reading the Bible and converting their men, or falling away from Bible study because of some terrible tragedy and finding their faith again. The last book we read was a book by homeschooled teenagers exhorting teens to “do big things.” It was overtly anti-Catholic and arrogant to boot—kids who “go to school” are all lazy decadent bums. My daughter, who had organized concerts for charity and done a lot of other big projects in her first year of Catholic high school, was not impressed by this. My daughter felt insulted by the other families (the girls got to choose books and two of her last choices were rejected: “Murder on the Orient Express” because it had murder in it, and another book because it had the word “Hell” in it). She came away with a visceral dislike of anything “Christian” because to her it smacks of self-righteousness and the downright arrogant behavior of some of the ‘holier than thou’ girls—and anti-intellectualism to boot. Sadly, the nice girls don’t seem to have left as much as an impression. So for my family a similar situation has proved to be a big negative, one that I’m still trying to repair. I don’t want my children thinking Christians as a whole are nasty and arrogant.

If things do get rough, there are always two things to remember: we are guided by the Magisterium (who, in turn, are guided by the Holy Spirit) and we have 2000 years of smart people to quote ;)

I did “Bible Study” with a small group of Jehovah’s Witnesses some years ago.  Now, it was a different situation as these folk were more actively antagonistic and not personal friends, but it was an interesting and enjoyable experience.

I learned a great deal about my Catholic faith and how to defend it, experienced a deepening of my faith and prayer life and was set on a course of continued study that lasts to this day.

Deliver us from evil and lead us not into temptation.

If these people are good Protestants I can tell you they want to evangelize you and your child. That is what good Protestants do. Something Catholics should be doing too but don’t.

Why not start your own Bible Study? Ok so you might not be that familiar enough with Scripture to do a Bible Study and it would be wise not to start one of your own.

So if you do not want to lose your daughter and perhaps your own faith as Catholics stay away from the Bible Study-be delivered. To think you could meet the challenge and go to the Bible Study do not and don’t fall to this prideful temptation.

Here is what to do. Get your Bible out and your Catechism of the Catholic Church and start reading them so you can arm yourself with Scripture and Tradition as our Magisterium directs us.  Get some of the Apologetic materials mentioned. Combine all four and in a year or less you will be wearing the armor of God.

You can do this with God’s grace (ask for it) if in your heart you wish to. Perhaps God is asking you to meet this challenge. We pray but seldom listen for an answer. God bless in any case.

Since this was not mentioned in the story, and it seems an obvious choice; why not read some scripture every night at home?  Catholics consistently fail to establish traditions within their own family.  This is evidenced by the largest protestant denomination, non-practicing Catholics.  First, looking at the Bible from a purely secular stand point, it’s a fascinating read, so why not read it?  Second, when you look at the Bible and combine it with the Catechist, your world really starts to make sense.  Finally, you have established a family tradition that your kids will carry on sometime in the future.

While I agree with Mark, this will likely be harmless, another factor outside of Christianity comes into play.  Politics!  If this is a family of liberals and you’re politically conservative, your neighbors will not speak to you from this point on and your child will have no idea why.

In a recent encounter with some liberal Catholics, I was telling the story of how I met my wife.  When it came out that we are both conservative, one person in the room got into a heated discussion with us and then left the room.  It was the equivalent of a child throwing a temper tantrum and stomping off.

I went to Bible Studies for years. I also did not go to the Church evry Sunday, I went elsewhere for a few years. I came back to the Church more firmly grounded in Biblical knowledge but lacking in Liturgical knowledge. I am playing catch up with that.

“There is, I’ll warrant, nothing you will heard said in the Bible study that has not been hashed over by the Catholic tradition at some point.”

Exactly right.  And something that I have truly rejoiced to discover ever since I came into the church in 2007.

The security of the Tradition is important, and it’s doubly important for your daughter to know about that security before she heads off to college and gets challenged about her beliefs by either the new atheists or some fundamentalist with a list of cherry-picked Bible verses.

One caveat from someone who spent over 20 years in “non-denominational” churches before coming home to Rome: I agree with Mark that you will probably encounter teaching that is good and true.  But in non-denom circles, “Bible study” groups can mean different things with different content.  It might be an honest reading and discussing of Bible passages led by a lay person who has done his/her best to prepare and understand the passage beforehand and whose agenda is to know God better and help others do the same.  Said preparation might or might not be guided by any number of books of varying quality.  I have even been in “Bible studies” where the Bible was barely opened and the main topic of discussion was a chapter in some new book that is trendy in the evangelical world: basically a Christian book club.  If the people leading this study are serious and thoughful, they will know that their understanding of what the Bible is saying is just that: their understanding. 

If you go, I highly recommend getting some resources to help you understand the passages from a Catholic perspective beforehand.  Some good might or might not come out of attending this Bible study.  If the tone of the study is that little thought needs to be given to the meaning of the passage and you often hear appeals to “God’s word plainly says” (i.e. this is the only interpretation of this passage we have learned so it looks like the obvious one) or intolerance of differing views, then you are probably dealing with fundamentalists in which case it’s probably more productive to pray for them from a distance.  The more the goal is to seriously look at scripture rather than using scripture as a prop to advance evangelical or fundamentalist theology, the more such an endeavor will promote Christian unity.

The non- catholic sects thrive on our ignorance. Many of the catholics are unable to argue against their presumptions about catholic Church. Once we are equipped with knowledge about our faith , our Church, we can clear their ignorance. But how many catholics are really interested to spend some time for this ?

My experience: Protestants expect Catholics to be open to invitations to their Bible studies, but Hell will freeze over before they come to a Catholic group.  That should tell you something.  There’s plenty of time to go and present the Catholic perspective at adults studies.  Keep your daughter out of this one, and don’t go to upset the apple-carts of the children whose parents don’t want them exposed to Catholicism at their tender age.  A polite “No, thanks, I want to be sure my daughter hears the truth of the faith from a Catholic perspective, please respect me and don’t ask again,” should suffice.

Way back when I was in high school, my parish didn’t have a youth group so my brother and I went to youth outreach organized by the parents of one of our cross-country teammates. The father was a fallen-away Catholic, and he and I got into some fine arguments over the years about sola fide and sola scriptura. It forced me to search the Scriptures myself and understand my faith better. They gave their seniors Bibles upon graduating, and for me they got a RSV-CE New Testament. They were very fine folks.
A few observations: I was quite a bit older than this girl; my parents were themselves devout and extremely knowledgeable Catholics (my father got a minor in philosophy at Duquesne back when it was still obviously Catholic), and my brother and I were no slouches either. I think I have a greater heart for real ecumenism because of the experience.

BHG is spot on about Protestants—especially non-denom types—wanting Catholics to come to thier activities but refusing to reciprocate. Philip V. is also right: the reader should start a Catholic Bible study group, that is, one that reads the Bible as it should be read. More than this or that Bible study, however, we especially need to avoid the “non-denominational” influence that is creeping into the Church via charismatic groups and “praise and worship” events. This stuff is wrecking the Catholic faith from within.

If you can find out in advance what book of the Bible they’ll be reading, there are some fine study editions available—Ignatius and Navarre come to mind—that give a good taste of how the Church has interpreted various passages over the past 2000 years.

Right on the money BHG and Philip V. Former fundamentalist Baptist and non-denominational Christian (20+ years) here and it would be beyond rare for them to entertain any Bible interpretation that does not match their own. The little girl is only 8 and I think this could end badly for her. Dad might go and give it a look-see but I would leave the little one out.

Was wondering, by any chance, is this part of a CEF group (Child Evangelism Fellowship)?  If so, those running the Bible studies are trained extensively in getting the children to to ‘accept Christ’ and go to a ‘Bible-believing’ church.  If this is the case, you need to be very aware of what is being said. Personally, whether it is CEF or not, I would not let my child attend, especially at the age of 8. Since the child is in public school, a home program such as Faith and Life, would be a better choice.  Maybe a few of her Catholic friends can be invited over to go over the material in that book. I commend the dad for paying attention to his ‘spider-sense’!!!

Gail,
Thanks for your interesting insight!

A big, big problem with this approach to bible study is that it implants the false idea that being Christian and able to read are the only necessary qualifications for interpretation of sacred scripture.  Regardless of whether the environment is hard-shell fundie or not, there’s danger in the unspoken assumption that anyone, reading without reference to Tradition or the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, is entitled to advance his atomized, free agent notions of what it all means.  The very fact that this study group surely will approach the Bible as self-authenticating invalidates it ab initio.

Mr. Shea, I just love your blog.  You’re funny and positive and take the ‘good news’ aspect of our faith seriously.  Thank you thank you thank you.

don’t let her go, there is no such thing as a non-denominational bible study. they all present the bible from a particular denominational perspective. they believe that catholics are not christians, i’d bet you. and lets face it, most catholic are not christians, they are nominal religionists who cannot articulate the gospel in the most basic way. i say this as a convert to the catholic faith.

More horrible advice from Mark Shea. Ugh.

I’m not Catholic. I left the Church over something Catholicism actually teaches.

I don’t think the bread and wine ever become the body and blood of Jesus.

I was a Catholic kid who attended the Neighborhood Bible Club in the early 70s.  I remember very clearly getting a ride home from one of the leaders in a woody station wagon, who brought up to me, a 7 yr old, one of the standard anti-Catholic positions on salvation.  “You know, Catholics believe, yada yada.”  I wouldn’t want my child attending, for all the good it might have to offer.  Without me being present or involved.

It’s fascinating.  The Church calls us to be witnesses to the world.  Folks like Delwin seem to think the Church calls us to be citizens of a beseiged city pulling up the drawbridge.  Sooner or later that little girl is going to have to learn to live in a culture that is not Catholic.  She can see that modeled for her by a parent with the courage to defend his faith to people who do not share it.  Or she can be hidden in Fortress Catholicus and told that her neighbors are enemies to fear. The latter path is an excellent preparation for parent to be unable to articulate his faith and for her to ultimately lose her faith.

I currently attend a Baptist church but am very close to becoming Catholic. In my humble opinion, as a very pro-Catholic Christian who has attended hundreds (if not thousands) of Evangelical Bible studies through the years, I think that Mark’s advice is spot-on. Let your daughter go, but Dad should go too.

If my experience is at all the norm, then you can expect one of two things (or maybe both). First, the people will be genuinely decent and sincere Christians who think it’s important to read the Bible. Much of what they discuss will be utterly uncontroversial and downright edifying. Second, the people may think that, as Catholics, you and your daughter are unsaved and need to hear the gospel message of salvation by faith alone. Your presence and thoughtful engagement can do a world of good by persuading any anti-Catholics in attendance that you do not, in fact, think that salvation is something you earn by doing good works. As an added bonus, you’ll also undermine their assumption that Catholics hate/fear/ignore the Bible.

As far as genuine doctrinal disagreements, such as the distinction between justification and sanctification or imputed vs. infused righteousness, I’d encourage you to avoid commenting unless asked to do so, and then explain the Catholic teaching to your daughter in private. But that’s a matter of prudence, and I’m not really in a position to say with confidence what you should do.

Paul, the Church teaches only what Jesus taught: that you must eat his body and drink his blood to have everlasting life.  Read John again, from beginning to end.

Think it is important to extend an invitation to them.  You’ll certainly see their motive with your daughter if they decline an invite.

I am a convert from the Evangelical Christian (in my case, Baptist) faith.  In my last few years in the Baptist Church in which I was active (but at which for the most part did not attend Sunday services), I noticed a very definite anti-them (and specifically anti-Catholic_ bent.  I had done some reading in both Catholic and Orthodox traditions (notably Fr Peter Gillquist’s “Becoming Orthodox” and more than one book by Dr Scott Hahn), and had enough of a knowledge of the beliefs of both streams of Christianity to consider them (along with the mainline protestants, pentecostal charismatics, and Episcopal/Anglicans) more or less equals with the Evangelicals.  On more than one occasion, some of the other people in the Bible study would pointedly ask me what the Catholics—or Orthodox, or (enter Christian group here)—believed.  Rather than a chance to be openminded about other Christian groups, it inevitably devolved into a manufactured opportunity for them to bash the group of the moment.  I eventually tired of the nonsense and publicly opted for a “time out”.  (Truth be told, I was burning out: working four evenings a week, doing a game night on Sunday evening, and Bible Studies Monday and Tuesday, I didn’t have an evening to myself for the better part of two years.)  However, the private reason was that I was sick of the “we’re right, they’re wrong,” “holier-than-thou” “we’ve decided that what we say the Bible says is correct and everyone (especially the Catholic and Orthodox viewpoints) who differs is wrong and it’s okay for us to ridicule them because of it” attitude.  At the time I left, the Tuesday night group (a co-ed college-age-plus group of young and mostly single adults) was doing a set of studies on “cults,” led by the “Young Adult Pastor,” himself an ex-Catholic.  The one unit he specifically (knowing I was attending mass and considering becoming Catholic, which I ultimately did) invited me to was the unit on the Catholic Church having cultlike qualities.  I have not been back (nor do I plan to return) to either Bible Study, though I do go to weekend services to provide transportation to and from weekend church services for my mom.  (This is in addition to attending Mass at my parish church.)  With my experience, I would say to anyone considering going to Bible Studies, go with a mind to learn… but be very careful, because your view may not be welcome.  If isn’t, and it’s very clear it isn’t, I would stop going.

Am I the only one to cringe when I hear or read “Christian” being used to denote Protestant?  This is a very partial comment to Gail Finke’s comment above.  Mind you, I am not criticizing her at all, just want to point out that little by little this thing about Catholics calling themselves Catholic and leaving “Christian” aside has allowed Protestants to claim that they are the only Christians, and we are some form of cult. My daughter in college encountered several Korean girls who belonged to some Protestant group, and they were amazed that Catholics call themselves also Christian.  A bit off topic, but this has been bothering me for years.

I think the reader is doing the right thing. And I think your advice of inviting them to Mass is wise. Or inviting the child to go with the Catholic daughter to Mass. If the neighbor becomes angry, abrasive or insulted with these suggestions, then one at least has better understanding of the situation. If they are welcome or open to going to Mass, all the better.

Pray on it.  The people putting on the Bible study are NOT Catholic. >Would you allow your daughter to attend a dinner where the food might be >poisonous?  Mark16:19, ‘...if they drink any deadly thing,it will not harm them.’ Must be read with Luke4:12 ‘...You shall not put the Lord, your God, to the test.’  CCC#2226 ‘...The parish is the Eucharistic community and the heart of the liturgical life of Christian families; it is a privileged place for the catechesis of children and parents.’  Look for a Bible study in a Catholic Church or maybe even pray on starting one.

Years ago I participated in BSF.  I really thought that I “knew” a great deal about my faith but what I didn’t realize was the actual philosophical position most Protestant Bible studies come from and that is Calvanism.  The Catholic position is entirely different and so our interpretation of the Scriptures is very different.  Without realizing it I absorbed many erroneous ideas that had to be “unlearned” as I came to know my faith better.

There are the extremes of “once saved, always saved” which are more easily recognized but there a number of other doctrines that are more subtle - such as we are sin - not just commit sins (a la Watchman Nee).  Some of these things make perfect sense if you don’t know your own faiths position on it.  Steve Ray has a teaching called the Trojan Horse that addresses this issue well and can be found on his website.

I do know many evangelicals and fundamentalists who send their children to public schools to “convert the lost” but their children are the ones who end up converted to the religiously ambivalent or hostile secular culture. The child needs to learn her faith along with the Bible. Our family of converts discusses quite frequently why we do/don’t believe certain things and my children (24,21,19,10,5,2) know their faith well and practice it even on their own.

Just a thought: we grow fragile plants in a hothouse and slowly acclimatize them to the cold, cruel world but think nothing of throwing our little children to the same world, defenseless and alone, and wonder why they crash and burn and lose their faith.

Tough one, Dad. I’m sure the neighbors make this into a fun social gathering with some Bible tossed in: at that age deep theology can be grasped but few adults are truly equipped to deliver the goods. Unfortunately, “fun” has a stronger pull than depth and she will feel like she is missing something if she doesn’t go.

My experience, as an adult who has attended “Coffee Breaks” and a mother of Catholic children (public schools, “the horror!”) who have attended non-denom events, is that they want your child to join their Christian sect. Of course, we expect people to think that their religious beliefs are the truth, otherwise they would be idiots to remain in that sect, right? It is natural for humans to need others to validate their beliefs, even if that person is 8.

Ask the adults running the program to stop inviting your daughter to those particular evenings but encourage them to keep the girls friendship going. There are many wholesome activities for 8 year olds that do not require religious discussion. Have them to your house for a fun craft or food making event.

If you chose to let her go, reciprocate at your house with a celebration-of-a-saint themed night (if you chose Patrick, forego the green beer) and educate them a little and show them how much “fun” Catholics have. If they refuse your religious-themed events, it should be a clear indication that they have an alterior motive.

I think this lady can really learn and grow in her faith. It is the PARENTS responsibility to teach the Catholic child her Catholic faith as well.

I see Catholic kids here in my section of Texas being sucked into nondenominational youth groups because their parents don’t know the difference between the Body and Blood of Christ and Baptist sharing of bread.

Know your faith and the truth will guide you and the Protestants.

As a non-Catholic who happened on this discussion, I just want to point out that the girl is only eight years old, and hopefully the interest is that age is limited to discovering the basic stories of both the Old Testament and New Testament and nothing more.  Noah, Abraham, Moses, David; and the life, teaching and miracles of Jesus.
It makes no sense to be introducing deeper theological or doctrinal matters at this stage.  That’s why I always like the doctrinal neutrality of children’s Bible story books.  All the child needs to learn at age eight is that we respond to God with both heart and hands; and that God is awaiting that response from each of us.

I disagree Paul that the “deeper theological” points need not be covered. Yes, it can happen, but for a Catholic mom that believes in the Sacraments, I think these points should be touched upon.

In John 6, Jesus says to eat his Body and drink his Blood, and to do this in memory of him. In a Bible study this can come up, and the Protestants don’t interpret this verse as the Church has for 2000 years.

That’s why my 8-yr. old, who is studying for her First Holy Communion, would either go with me or not go at all to a Protestant bible study. She understands many points, but I do not want my daughter taught falsehoods.  I want her to have all the truth.

Currently I also participate in a Protestant-based bible study with some stay-at-home moms. (This bible study is more Catholic than most Catholics could stand.) The moms are very pro-life and pro-family.

I’ve taught in Protestant and Catholic children’s bible study, and it’s not easy to give a one-size-fits all form of Christianity.

As someone who has “lost” 9 siblings to various Protestant denominations ( no longer receiving the sacraments!!) - due to horrendously poor catechesis from 1970 onward, I would not allow my children to attend anything but a legitimate Catholic Bible Study.  And I mean legitimate.  It would have to be part of a thoroughly orthodox, magisterial program, not some well-intentioned person winging it.

That said, just think of all the erroneous perceptions you could dispel if you went with your daughter:  “Oh, this was the passage we heard in mass this Sunday.  Here’s how Father explained it in his homily.”  “I love that psalm!  I’‘m so glad it is used so often at Mass.”  “Let’s study the 6th chapter of John - the “Bread of Life Discourse!” 

SPEAK UP!

Liseux, I hear you.  First and foremost, I think it’s always important to remember that while Evangelical Protestants don’t hold to a sacramental view of baptism and communion, they do in fact practice both.  I would be extremely concerned if a child was being taught by someone from a sect where baptism and communion aren’t present at all, and indeed there are some of those out there.
Ideally, the person teaching is intimately—not superficially—familiar with the faiths of any children that have been invited.  At that point, I would want them to say, “Some people believe that when we partake of communion…; while other people believe…”  That kind of balance has to be present as the very minimum of what would be acceptable on those issues.
However, I still think that in the balance between word and sacraments, a home-based Bible study with young children should emphasis word: the stories, the teachings, the widsom books.  The best teaching on sacraments will occur when and where the sacraments are actually taking place.

My son was invited and attended a neighborhood Bible study a few times when he was a freshman at our public school.  My kids have also been a part of Fellowship of Christian Athletes at our public school.  I let them go (and they have to get up early - get to school at 6:30 a.m. in order to meet with this group) because it is a way for them to find like minded friends in a huge public school.  However, after my son had gone a few times to the neighborhood Bible study, I told him to ask the boy who had invited him to come to our Catholic youth group.  He never wanted or was not allowed to come.  At that point, my son decided to quit going to their group.  He did, however, keep the cool fleece hat that said, “Into the Deep”.  It was never an issue after freshman year, and I am wondering now if there is a concerted effort to evangelize to freshman.    I’m guessing there was.

Dear Dad of the Little Girl:  Do NOT abandon your child’s instruction to those who want to “save” her.  I grew up Baptist.  Understand:  it’s a major part of their mission to remove Catholics from the One True Faith.

Your daughter deserves your protection.  If she goes, you must go with her.  Be her Dad, be a man.  Give her what lasts.

Very true, JJ.  I wanted to say that in my original post, but I didn’t.  I converted from Southern Baptist to Catholicism.  People celebrated whenever they converted a Catholic. It was announced in Sunday School, announced at Church, and then shared in every circle.  It was so sad!!

I still have friends and family that believe I’m going to Hell, since I left the Baptist faith. Now, that is pathetic!

I had a feeling I was right. For years I’ve been saying there are 2 types of protestant denominations, imaginary and anti-Catholic.  The imaginary exist because they refute the existence of the Catholic Church and all it’s history, so they dream up their own.  The Mormons are a great example of this.  The rest exist because they convince their parishioners that Catholic is bad, Baptist (insert any) is good.

I can just hear the pastors from the pulpit; “We cannot survive as long as the hordes are at the gates! Give all you can so we can push back against the idolatry and institutional power brought on by greed and guilt!

I’m embellishing of course, but you get the point.

As I read through comments on various NCR blogs, I see this same theme over and over from fellow Catholics.  I’m glad that I’m getting it right because it helps me to overcome objections and falsehoods when I encounter them face to face.

As a convert to catholism I have come to love all the deep Catholic teachings regarding this faith. It is all true and loving and I cannot imagine bringing my 8 year old to a non denominational bible study not knowing what they will be teaching her. We find out what our children will learn at public school. Unfortunately we cannot prevent some of the awful things taught now in public school but we can guide our children’s catholic faith. Also aren’t 8 year olds getting ready for communion? This should be foremost imbedded in this child’s life before she gets on someone else’s track to nowhere. The ball is in your court Dad!

Maybe Dad can “audit” one before coming with Daughter, to see what the tone is like (“audit” at the universities means you pay and attend, but aren’t required to do homework and don’t receive a grade).
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emjay: not all my family is Catholic.  I mentioned to a dear relative that I was attending two different Bible studies with my Catholic friends, and her response went sort of like “Oh good, it’s good you are getting more Bible study.”  I laughed internally about the “more”—it’s true, actually, every Sunday for twenty-odd years isn’t enough. :)
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Filippo, that’s when you (and she) can explain that Catholic means “universal.”

what about other catholic youth groups? so she can be immersed in Catholicism with kids her own age